Vegan/Vegetarian vs. Paleo/Keto diet "extremes". Your views?
#1
I decided that this would be an appropriate place for those wanting to discuss the validity (?) of the Vegan/Vegetarian diet and philosophy, vs. the Paleo/Keto diet and its philosophy.

Another thread was basically hijacked by the zealots of these views because each has some very important and very inflammable viewpoints. So here's a place to flame out at each other!

Personally: I think that Vegan, especially and Vegetarian are not the best ways to eat for the average human. Vegetarian, mixed with diary including eggs, for example, has some very strong benefits to one's health and if you were to include fish in that diet, I'd be inclined to practice such a regimen.

Paleo and Keto diets have the advantage of supplying all the nutrients necessary for a healthy human body to maintain itself and if done properly, within the limits of propriety, will help one loose weight and maintain a good immune system.

That said as an opener, shall the discussions begin?
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#2
I haven't done much research into paleo/keto.  (I've gotten the impression that keto is basically paleo, but are they actually the same thing?)  I've recently read somewhere, though, that a lot of people go onto a keto diet eventually get these gray "liver spots" on their body that never go away, even if they discontinue eating keto.  Something to do with how the body begins processing nutrients differently based on the diet, or how it has to begin processing differently based on the different concentrations of nutrients?
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#3
My view is, short of your individual body not reacting properly to a particular food, eat meat and veggies and bread! Cut back (cut out?) dramatically on processed sugars. And I think intermittent fasting is good for your weight, health, and self-discipline. Also I'm pretty big on organic foods and raw milk n such.
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#4
Just be careful about taking on too extreme a diet. That can lead to you crashing in the opposite direction. One week, you’ll have nothing but meat. The next week, it’s doughnuts, ice cream, pizza, and other fast food.
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#5
And he saith to them: So are you also without knowledge? understand you not that every thing from without, entering into a man cannot defile him: Because it entereth not into his heart, but goeth into the belly, and goeth out into the privy, purging all meats? But he said that the things which come out from a man, they defile a man. - Mark 7:18-20

Honestly, these diets where people superstitiously avoid specific foods are ridiculous. As long as one is being prudent, i.e. consuming in moderation, while maintaining regular fasts they should have little to worry about in way of health. Obviously, consuming loads of sugar everyday is not being prudent but neither is avoiding a specific kind of food because of some irrational belief that it will instantly kill you if you eat it once (food allergies aside).

For modern man being progressive and evolved beyond 'superstitions,' he sure acts superstitious.
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#6
I have been doing Keto.  It works.  Nothing else works.  BUT, I have to keep my carbs below 10 a day, 0 is best for me.  At 0, the weight will slowly drop off, about 1 lb a week.   I feel MUCH better with a low carb diet, much better, I don't know if it is because of the lack of sugar, specifically, or the lack of grain, or everything all together.  My stomach feels so much better.  I do the intermittent fasting but I see no benefits, I just don't like to eat in the morning.
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This is very, very, may I say, very, difficult to maintain day in and day out.  Not the cravings for carbs/sugar, I am past that, but I am so very tired of chicken and veggies and cheese.  I get to eat meat, many veggies (but not all, no carrots if you want to keep your carbs as low as I have to), and no grains, of course, but also no fruit at all.  And, believe it or not, I have burned out on bacon.  I live with, and cook for, others.  They cannot handle as much cabbage and brussel sprouts as I like to eat.  
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I know, I know, 1 lb a week equals 52 lbs in a year, but, damn, that is a lot of chicken, scrambled eggs,  canned tuna and broccoli.  No apples.  No carrots, no chili for the football game.....and I miss the occasional bagel.
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I have not heard about any spots.
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I have never tried Veganism.  My oncologist told me to never touch any soy products, so, veganism is out.
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#7
Quote:It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.
As far as health is concerned, I think the science is pretty clear. Vegetarian and yes, even vegan diets are healthy at all stages of life. 

Quote:Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.
The definition of veganism, defined by The Vegan Society, which originally coined the term in 1944. Despite being accused of idolatry and lowering my value of human life, I do still believe that we should endeavor to reduce suffering, cruelty and exploitation to the best of our abilities.
~Your local humanitarian snowflake™ with the most noble of spirits.
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#8
(09-11-2019, 11:12 PM)MaryTN Wrote: I have never tried Veganism.  My oncologist told me to never touch any soy products, so, veganism is out.

There are other plants besides soybeans.
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#9
Moderation seems best to me. I don't think there's a one size fits all diet.  My brother has been vegan for 15 plus years and seems in decent health so it must work for him I suppose.  As for me, I've felt healthiest by eating mostly beef and fish but I'll have fruit and veggies every now and than.  

Personally I don't think diet should ever descend into the realm of militant ideology.
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


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#10
In my experience it depends on why one subscribes to a particular diet. I've found more cult-like followings in the vegan and vegetarian camps than the keto camp. Those I've met who do keto do it more so to lose weight while the former is more of an ideology; they're more humble about it. I have more respect for the vegan + vegetarian camp if it's for religious purposes versus secular reasons.
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Trying to get better every day week.
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