Schism and End Times Scenario
#21
Quote:Only thing I disagree with, how as the Catechism says, the faith of many believers be shaken if not from within the Church?
Suppose my scenario. Suppose an Anti-Pope leads a very large Anti-Church that the world considers the Catholic Church, while the true Pope leads a very small remnant Church that the world hates as being "bigoted" and "hateful" and persecutes relentlessly. Who are the lukewarm Catholics, you know that majority that doesn't even believe in the real presence, going to follow?

Imagine this Anti-Pope heralds this globalist messiah figure as a great and holy man, a man who's Christ like, a great peacemaker and full of mercy, etc. Then you have a situation where many many Catholics, laity and clergy, are following an Anti-Pope into adherence to the Anti-Christ. Imagine the world sees this figure shot and killed, and rises from the dead. Imagine he performs miracles and solves all of our worldly problems. Can you see here a vast religious deception, that would deceive (if possible) even the elect? All the apostasy in the Church since Vatican 2 is merely paving the way for this religious deception to emerge. Watch the Amazon Synod, and above all watch Benedict.
Reply
#22
@MagisterMusicae

Call me a nutter, whatever you would like, dismiss it all, the only reason I write these things, is because if it does happen and the Church under Francis goes completely AWOL (Amazon Synod etc), you can recall what I've said here and know that the gates of hell have NOT prevailed over the Church and thus your faith will not be shaken. If it doesn't then Thank God, but you'll be prepared if it does.

God Bless You
Reply
#23
(09-12-2019, 10:28 PM)1Faith Wrote: .

Like I said though, the only way that 'even the elect' could be deceived, is if this deception comes from within the Church, from corrupt cardinals, priests and bishops, as Fulton J Sheen said, the Church will have her own Judas. How do we reconcile this with 'The gates of Hell will never prevail'? well, IMO the only way is through an invalid election, and coupled with what St Faustina said in regards to St Pope John Paul II, I have strong suspicions about the election of Francis and the resignation of Pope Benedict.

Fulton J Sheen Wrote:The False Church will be worldly, ecumenical, and global. It will be a loose federation of churches and religions, forming some type of global association.

A world parliament of Churches. It will be emptied of all Divine content, it will be the mystical body of the anti-christ. The Mystical Body on earth today will have its Judas Iscariot, and he will be the false prophet. Satan will recruit him from our Bishops.

God Bless You
Reply
#24
By the way I highly recommend everyone read Windswept House by Malachi Martin and The Secret of Benedict XVI by Antonio Socci. Between the enthronement of Lucifer in the Vatican on June 29 1963 and Socci's thesis regarding Benedict's "resignation" a lot of the puzzle pieces start to fit together.

Sent from my SM-J260T1 using Tapatalk
Reply
#25
(09-12-2019, 10:14 PM)1Faith Wrote: Really that's exactly what I'm talking about. The apostate prelates who are adherence of the heresy of modernism constitute the "anti-church". Obviously these prelates are within the institutional apparatus.

The institution is the Catholic Church. Period.

You cannot say that the institution is taken over by an anti-Church, because that would precisely mean that the "gates of hell" have prevailed.

(09-12-2019, 10:14 PM)1Faith Wrote: However, if Benedict is still actually the Pope, and Francis is an anti-pope

The presumption here at FE (except in one thread) is that Francis is the Pope.

(09-12-2019, 10:14 PM)1Faith Wrote: ... one can forsee a scenario where there is a schism between the two and those who follow Francis are considered the Catholic Church and are in fact NOT, and the small remnant who follow Benedict are. So the Church would not end up being "an invisible collection of true believers" but rather a visible society under the Roman Pontiff, as it has always been, though very small and persecuted.

No. That would constitute the gates of Hell prevailing. If a Pope could be elected, accepted by virtually the whole world, and even by the former Pope, and the whole time be a pretender, then we would have no good reason to accept any previous Pope, and thus no good reason to accept any defined doctrine of the Church.

(09-12-2019, 10:14 PM)1Faith Wrote:
Quote:It would be odd for St Paul to speak of a "temple" when Christians did not call their meeting places "temples"
St. Paul doesn't speak of a temple of God but THE temple of God. Elsewhere he refers to the Church as the "Israel of God". I do not believe for a second Paul had in mind a reconstituted Solomon's temple in Jerusalem. I believe he here refers to the Church, or at rather the physical structure thereof, in Rome. St. Peters Basilica for example.

Then you disagree with most Fathers and theologians.

"Israel" came to mean the People of God, that is, the kahal or ecclesia. The Church Militant.

Never in Scripture does it mean the physical buildings of the Christian Church. St Paul most certainly does not mean a Christian building in 2 Th 2:4 by "Temple". He cannot mean something that did not exist, and with which he audience would have no familiarity.

Churches, as in buildings, did not begin to be built for purpose until at least the second or third century. Such building did not exist until 50-100 years after St Paul wrote those words, at a minimum. If St Paul meant the physical structures of the Church by "temple" then he would be referring to something that no one who was reading his letter would understand. Not only this, but we would certainly find this idea in the Fathers. We don't.

You're welcome to think this, but it simply fails basic exegetical principles.

(09-12-2019, 10:14 PM)1Faith Wrote: Pope Francis is 100% NOT the anti-christ. The anti-christ will likely be a globalist Messiah figure.

Yet you see him as leading a false Church, which you call an anti-Church, which suggests it is lead by the anti-Christ ... I'm confused.
Reply
#26
(09-12-2019, 10:50 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: No. That would constitute the gates of Hell prevailing. If a Pope could be elected, accepted by virtually the whole world, and even by the former Pope, and the whole time be a pretender, then we would have no good reason to accept any previous Pope, and thus no good reason to accept any defined doctrine of the Church.

So even if it was rigged, as long as they are accepted by the former Pope (supposedly) and by the whole world it would make them validly elected?

I think the main difference between today and previous Popes, is that this is still playing out today, we are yet to get more information, if Pope Benedict and Francis dies and there is a successor to Francis, then I'll confess my doubts of Francis and the spreading of those doubts, but until then, we have an Amazon Synod to play out yet and many other heresies to come IMO, so given all the evidence, IMHO I think it's wise to caution against Francis and remain vigilant at this time.

If Francis is Pope, then he is the highest authority on Earth as far as I'm concerned, and that would shake my faith and belief in 'The Gates of Hell will never prevail' far, far too deeply to even believe.

God Bless You
Reply
#27
Quote:Yet you see him as leading a false Church, which you call an anti-Church, which suggests it is lead by the anti-Christ ... I'm confused.

No. I dont believe this with any certitude whatever. It is beyond my pay grade to make such a judgment. Whether Pope or Anti-Pope he is not the Anti-Christ. I'm virtually certain the Anti-Christ will be a world leader emerging from the globalist Elite. Now I honestly don't know if Francis or Benedict is Pope. I do have serious reasons to believe Francis MAY be an Anti-Pope. But I freely admit I could be wrong. I pray for the Pope daily, I just don't name him because I'm not entirely sure who he is honestly. Never before in the history of the Church have we had two men in Rome wearing white being referred to as "Pope" and "Holy Father".

I honestly think embracing Francis as the legitimate Pope poses more of a problem for the indefectibility of the Church than my scenario does, by a long shot. Francis made the Argentinian Bishops interpretation of Amoris Latitia part of his official papal magisterium. We must submit to the Popes magisterium. That's a huge problem. The man is TEACHING the permissibility of making a sacrilegious communion. He is saying that one who is in an objective state of adultery, and knows it full well, can receive absolution in confession and receive our Lord in holy communion without repenting of the sin and without a firm purpose of amendment. Can a Pope teach error in faith and morals?! Following the teachings of this Pope can quite literally lead a soul to Hell. How is that possible?! Now imagine he puts the sure-to-be diabolical heresies of the upcoming synod as part of his magisterium. Will you assent to all of that? When, pray tell, do we draw the line and start to seriously consider that this man may in fact be an anti-pope? The scenario I outlined makes more sense and actually keeps the perpetuity and indefectibility of the church in tact, in the face of Francis promulgating heresy.
[-] The following 1 user Likes 1Faith's post:
  • josh987654321
Reply
#28
New Australian law forces priests to break seal of confession
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/new-au...confession

I just want you all to know, this was only capable in Victoria because of Francis, and if Francis had his way with America, you would have Clinton right now and these laws would be being passed in your Country too.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless
Reply
#29
Meanwhile.....



You know who else would support this initiative? Daniel Andrews, the Victorian Premier who pushed these laws through (Incl. Hillary Clinton, Democrats etc), who are also pro LGBTQIA and the mass murder of the most innocent (abortion) and has passed those laws and indoctrination programs. He's also a man made climate change lover.

Umm "It takes a village" where have I heard that before? Ohh, that's right, Hillary Clinton.

I don't know about you blokes, I recognized St Pope John Paul II's voice, I recognized Pope Benedict XVI's voice, but I don't recognize this guys voice. Did he even mention our Lord Jesus Christ or quote scripture at least once? follow the African proverb I guess.

Fulton J Sheen Wrote:The False Church will be worldly, ecumenical, and global. It will be a loose federation of churches and religions, forming some type of global association.

A world parliament of Churches. It will be emptied of all Divine content, it will be the mystical body of the anti-christ. The Mystical Body on earth today will have its Judas Iscariot, and he will be the false prophet. Satan will recruit him from our Bishops.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless
Reply
#30
At times I think one possible misconception sets parameters that may not be right. The Church and Anti-Church seem to be in the same earthly dwelling right now. It's everywhere from my local parish right up to the Vatican.

The Church is visible, but does not mean the whole institution must be Church. We can visibly see who's trying to follow Jesus and who's not in the clergy - it's not invisible.

I read a great letter from a life long dedicated Catholic locally, written to the bishop. And they said for years they basically were programmed to follow the clergy. Their eyes have been opened and now see that following the clergy is not the same as following Jesus and tradition of the Church. The clergy moved the Tabernacles out of the Sanctuary and won't put them back. The clergy loaded the sanctuary with women and lay folks. The clergy have told us not to evangelize.

At some point if people do not acknowledge that the institution has gone wrong, they will continue to follow them down the wrong path. It's possible that the institution itself could become "another god" that people follow.

It's not a neat and tidy picture. But the gates of Hell have not prevailed - I can still see those in the true Church striving to follow Jesus, they are not invisible. And I can also see those that rebel, they are not invisible either.
[-] The following 2 users Like Markie Boy's post:
  • Fionnchu, Stephanus ignotum
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)