Schism and End Times Scenario
#31
(09-13-2019, 07:33 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: At some point if people do not acknowledge that the institution has gone wrong, they will continue to follow them down the wrong path. It's possible that the institution itself could become "another god" that people follow.

I liked much what you said, but the only issue is, I believe the gates of hell will never prevail over the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and I believe that the Pope is the highest authority on Earth.

If we say that Francis is a 'bad' Pope and to ignore what he says and does, then the next Pope who is sent to restore the Church, our enemies can say and do exactly as we have done when told to "Listen to the Holy Father" and back to my first point, if he is the highest authority on Earth, I just cannot believe that Francis was validly elected, and given all the evidence, I am quite confident, if Francis was validly elected then my faith is shaken to the core. I pray for Pope Benedict, for the truth to come out and for the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church to be restored.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
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#32
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#33
(09-13-2019, 08:13 AM)FultonFan Wrote: .

Are you trying to put me to sleep? :D

I agree wholeheartedly with the saints in regards to the Bishop of Rome, that is precisely why I cannot go along with the 'bad Pope' narrative and why he is either invalidly elected and thus not the true Pope or my faith is shaken to the very core as it appears the gates of hell have prevailed which I know they never will.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
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#34
(09-12-2019, 09:56 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(09-12-2019, 08:49 PM)Stephanus ignotum Wrote: 13th June 2029 (100 years since Our Lady requested the Consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart) + 'Apophis' asteroid in 2029 = Great Chastisement?

Not much of a chastisement in real terms ...

I'd say the Great Chastisement is what we're living through now. The worst chastisement is for God to step back and let us "flamingo" (to quote John Bercow) it up trusting in ourselves. That is a real chastisement.

"Fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Mt 10:28)

No, we're not living through the Great Chastisement because of what Our Lady explicitly having warned of both at Fatima and Akita not having to come to pass yet, even with things the way they are!

However, part of those warnings do also seem to be an accurate description of what's increasingly happening now, e.g. 'Cardinals against Cardinals, Bishops against Bishops' etc. which also implies possible future schism.

However, I brought it up the (implied) need for the Consecration in the first place because I think it's relevant to this discussion and because we should all pray for it. Yet I know that those of you who say we need to be careful about not speculating - or not too much anyway - are right. Then again, so are those of you who say that there isn't necessarily anything wrong with all this, due to a sincere attempt at understanding what's going on and the messages that God is sending us.
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#35
(09-13-2019, 09:10 AM)Stephanus ignotum Wrote: No, we're not living through the Great Chastisement because of what Our Lady explicitly having warned of both at Fatima and Akita not having to come to pass yet, even with things the way they are!

The scary part is Our Lady of Akita says fire from heaven, a chastisement worse then the deluge, and what was the punishment for Sodom and Gomorrah? And what did Francis say as these laws swept across the west.... "Who am I to Judge."

At the same time I also take comfort in, if but 10 people, the entire city will be spared. Pray we can mitigate what's to come as much as possible.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
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#36
(09-13-2019, 07:56 AM)josh987654321 Wrote:
(09-13-2019, 07:33 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: At some point if people do not acknowledge that the institution has gone wrong, they will continue to follow them down the wrong  path.  It's possible that the institution itself could become "another god" that people follow.

I liked much what you said, but the only issue is, I believe the gates of hell will never prevail over the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and I believe that the Pope is the highest authority on Earth.

If we say that Francis is a 'bad' Pope and to ignore what he says and does, then the next Pope who is sent to restore the Church, our enemies can say and do exactly as we have done when told to "Listen to the Holy Father" and back to my first point, if he is the highest authority on Earth, I just cannot believe that Francis was validly elected, and given all the evidence, I am quite confident, if Francis was validly elected then my faith is shaken to the core. I pray for Pope Benedict, for the truth to come out and for the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church to be restored.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You

Thank you.  And all I want to do is try and find the right perspective and right way to say it.

The real question is what does "the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church" look like.  If it's the clergy holding to truth, the gates have already given way, that's a no brainer.  

If the Church is the remnant of dedicated people following Jesus, we are good - they'll die before they cave like the clergy have.  They seem to have collected in the Pro-Life group here.  Actually as I think, that's a great way to show that both the true and false Church coexist in our local parish.

Almost all the dedicated Christians are in the Pro-Life group.  Then we have a group that seems to shun the Pro-Life group, because they prefer social justice, open boarders and "who am I to judge" approaches to sexuality and marriage.  And they are all under one roof, sharing one bread - scary picture!
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#37
Quote:If the Church is the remnant of dedicated people following Jesus, we are good

I think this is correct, however, this remnant Church would still have to be led by a true Pope. So for example if there is a schism and Benedict lays claim to being the Pope and leads a small persecuted remnant Church, that would be a viable scenario. The modernists could have all the buildings and the entire diocesan structure, the Church could go back to the catacombs, as long as there is a legitimate Pope at the head the Church exists and is visible.

A sedevacante could exist, say if Benedict was killed (see the vision of the third secret), but it wouldn't last long, perhaps 3.5 years. It seems the Anti-Christ can't emerge until the Holy Father is taken out of the way. So a sedevacante would be the condition now necessary for Anti-Christ to emerge. But after all of that and after the Great chastisement a new Pope will emerge and lead a restoration of the Church. Prophesy seems to indicate this.

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#38
(09-13-2019, 03:36 PM)Markie Boy Wrote: The real question is what does "the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church" look like.  If it's the clergy holding to truth, the gates have already given way, that's a no brainer.

If the Church is the remnant of dedicated people following Jesus, we are good - they'll die before they cave like the clergy have.

This is where specifically I have to disagree, because if it's simply faithful followers of Christ, then that gives weight to the Protestants and Orthodox and every other schism that has ever taken place, so this CANNOT be the case. There is only 1 alternative... Francis election was rigged and/or Benedict is still Pope, this is the ONLY conclusion IMO otherwise the gates of hell have prevailed and there is no reason to criticize the Orthodox and Protestants who broke away from Rome. Christ gave St Peter and his successors the keys to heaven, who's sins THEY forgive are forgiven in heaven and who's sins THEY retain are retained.

(09-13-2019, 03:36 PM)Markie Boy Wrote: They seem to have collected in the Pro-Life group here.  Actually as I think, that's a great way to show that both the true and false Church coexist in our local parish.

I agree. Great place to start when distinguishing between heretics and non believers.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
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#39
Quote:The modernists could have all the buildings and the entire diocesan structure, the Church could go back to the catacombs, as long as there is a legitimate Pope at the head the Church exists and is visible.

Like in 1790s France or present-day (People's Republic) China with an 'official' Church and the actual Church? Do you think this is the pattern that may be followed?
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#40
(09-13-2019, 03:36 PM)Markie Boy Wrote:
(09-13-2019, 07:56 AM)josh987654321 Wrote:
(09-13-2019, 07:33 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: At some point if people do not acknowledge that the institution has gone wrong, they will continue to follow them down the wrong  path.  It's possible that the institution itself could become "another god" that people follow.

I liked much what you said, but the only issue is, I believe the gates of hell will never prevail over the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and I believe that the Pope is the highest authority on Earth.

If we say that Francis is a 'bad' Pope and to ignore what he says and does, then the next Pope who is sent to restore the Church, our enemies can say and do exactly as we have done when told to "Listen to the Holy Father" and back to my first point, if he is the highest authority on Earth, I just cannot believe that Francis was validly elected, and given all the evidence, I am quite confident, if Francis was validly elected then my faith is shaken to the core. I pray for Pope Benedict, for the truth to come out and for the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church to be restored.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You


The real question is what does "the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church" look like.  If it's the clergy holding to truth, the gates have already given way, that's a no brainer.  

The true Mass. As long as we have the true Mass, in its proper form (the consecration is key), then we still have the Church. If, for whatever reason, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass were to suddenly cease then the world would come to an end.

"It would be easier for the world to survive without the sun than to do without Holy Mass." ~ St. Pio of Pietrelcina
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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