Schism and End Times Scenario
#41
Quote:The true Mass. As long as we have the true Mass, in its proper form (the consecration is key), then we still have the Church. If, for whatever reason, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass were to suddenly cease then the world would come to an end.

"It would be easier for the world to survive without the sun than to do without Holy Mass." ~ St. Pio of Pietrelcina

That's a good way of putting it, since I've long imagined the possibility that the Church could eventually be reduced to literally only a handful of people worldwide, one of whom would have to be a priest to administer the Sacraments and you rightly more specifically reference the Mass especially/exclusively.
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#42
Quote:If, for whatever reason, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass were to suddenly cease then the world would come to an end.

It wont entirely cease but I do believe it will go underground, and be heavily persecuted. The Anti-Christ will do all he can to stomp it out completely. All Hell will break loose.

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#43
(09-13-2019, 08:31 PM)Stephanus ignotum Wrote:
Quote:The true Mass. As long as we have the true Mass, in its proper form (the consecration is key), then we still have the Church. If, for whatever reason, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass were to suddenly cease then the world would come to an end.

"It would be easier for the world to survive without the sun than to do without Holy Mass." ~ St. Pio of Pietrelcina

That's a good way of putting it, since I've long imagined the possibility that the Church could eventually be reduced to literally only a handful of people worldwide, one of whom would have to be a priest to administer the Sacraments and you rightly more specifically reference the Mass especially/exclusively.

I think of the references so often made to the Deluge. Noah and his family were all that survived the Flood out of the entire population of the earth. And since the Church is seen as the ark herself, it would not be a stretch by any means to believe that the most likely scenario is that a tiny group survives the coming chastisement and preserves Holy Mass, especially given Our Lady's warnings that the next spanking from God the Father will be far worse than the Deluge.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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#44
(09-13-2019, 08:13 PM)Augustinian Wrote: The true Mass. As long as we have the true Mass, in its proper form (the consecration is key), then we still have the Church. If, for whatever reason, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass were to suddenly cease then the world would come to an end.

Don't the Orthodox have a valid Holy Eucharist though? The problem arises that, without a successor to St Peter, without an ultimate authority on Earth, who is to say what the True Mass is or is not? If Francis is legitimate then his teachings are binding, if he is not then his teachings are not binding, if his teachings are binding then the gates of hell have prevailed IMO which I know can never happen.

God Bless You
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#45
Yes - the Orthodox have a totally Apostolic connection and valid Eucharist. That puts quite a twist on things as far as that goes as a limiting factor. What about prophecy that Rome would loose the faith (before our eyes now) and become seat of the anti-Christ? The East is not part of that prophetic meltdown.

I think the East gets far too little respect at times from the West.
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#46
We have come to relate the word Church with buildings and institution. Ekklesia is a Greek word defined as “a called-out assembly or congregation.” Ekklesia is commonly translated as “church” in the New Testament. For example, Acts 11:26 says that “Barnabas and Saul met with the church [ ekklesia ]” in Antioch.

Accurate translation this way says Jesus will build His people - not his institution - on Peter. If there is prophecy that Rome will loose the faith, that is saying the gates of Hell will prevail against Rome, and it appears they are winning.

If we view the Church as a called out assembly - we are still good. I think we have lost focus of what ekklesia is.
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#47
(09-13-2019, 10:54 PM)Markie Boy Wrote: I think the East gets far too little respect at times from the West.

I agree, but remember too that the East has broken from Rome. Like I said, without a valid successor of St Peter, without that ultimate authority here on Earth, then who is to say what the true Mass is or isn't or who is in schism or not? Private interpretations of scripture?

IMO there can only be 2 scenarios, 1) Francis is Pope and his teachings are binding, and thus for me if true then the gates of hell have prevailed IMO which I know can never happen. or 2) Francis has not been canonically elected (rigged) as St Francis of Assisi's Prophecy says and Benedict is either still Pope or the seat is empty.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
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#48
(09-13-2019, 11:03 PM)Markie Boy Wrote: We have come to relate the word Church with buildings and institution.

Nope, on the successors to St Peter.

(09-13-2019, 11:03 PM)Markie Boy Wrote: Accurate translation this way says Jesus will build His people - not his institution - on Peter.


Exactly. Therefore the successors to St Peter.

(09-13-2019, 11:03 PM)Markie Boy Wrote: If there is prophecy that Rome will loose the faith, that is saying the gates of Hell will prevail against Rome, and it appears they are winning.

Or the chair of Peter will be usurped by a man not canonically elected and thus fool everyone.

(09-13-2019, 11:03 PM)Markie Boy Wrote: If we view the Church as a called out assembly - we are still good. I think we have lost focus of what ekklesia is.

Is this not Protestantism? Can a group of Protestant Christians get together and what they teach becomes binding?

God Bless You
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#49
I think that in the end, these places (Rome, Poland, Russia etc) and people (Francis, Benedict, Obama etc) are going to be of such little importance. Imagine how the disintegration of the Roman Empire or the fall of Byzantium would have felt/looked like? Looks like neither of those things ushered in the end times even though it looked so close. History is full of prophecies and predictions that came and went, what makes ours so special?
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#50
I hear you - that can lean to protestantism. But there is a truth in there that I am not wording clearly, partially because I'm too tired, and partially because I'm still working on it.

At times I wanted to leave Catholicism because of the scandal, and poor or absent leadership. But I found myself searching for what the ekklesia is. This called out group - called out of the world to follow Jesus - exists in the Catholic Church - but all of the Catholic Church is not it.

And some of it exists in the Orthodox Church as well. Confusing times.
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