Catholic Left provoking schism - article
#1
For thought:

https://completechristianity.blog/2019/0...ke-schism/
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#2
I agree for the most part. However, his view on the SSPX is wrong. Their actions are what kept tradition going. They never entered schism, and they expelled sedevacantists, hence that old letter from the Vatican that begrudgingly admitted one does fulfill their Sunday obligation at an SSPX chapel.

I know some of the more hardline SSPX folks discourage FSSP attendance, calling them sellouts. However, I feel the founding of the FSSP was actually the modernists' worst nightmare. It allowed trads to stay within Diocesan structures. 

The huge wave of young trad priests is thanks to Archbishop Lefebvre. The article says the SSPX have no voice, but in truth their voice has been widely successful.

This morning I attended Mass at my local parish. (TLM is over an hour away and not always an option). Though NO, seeing several women with veils, virtually everyone receive on the tongue, almost no holding hands during the Lord's Prayer and having us respond to the Angus Due in Latin (!) is a wonderful thing. This is the legacy of Archbishop Lefebvre at work within even Novus Ordo in my view. 

Our counter revolution shall continue at a methodical pace. One thing we definitely need is to continue doing is encourage our NO brethren to bring true Catholicism into even the liberal parishes. Wear a tie or veil. Receive on the tongue. Keep your hands clasped during the Our Father. 

And catechize your kids at home.
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#3
I am with you, I don't agree with his SSPX assessment. But his theory on the true purpose of the synod is probably not too far off the mark.
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#4
(09-15-2019, 11:06 AM)LionHippo Wrote: I am with you, I don't agree with his SSPX assessment.  But his theory on the true purpose of the synod is probably not too far off the mark.

Most definitely true. But he underestimates what faithful Catholics are capable of.

That said, his encouraging FSSP, ICKSP and Ordinariate attendance is truly vital. 

I am also happy that my 6 year old finally sat through Mass without the need to bring him to the Narthex, a first. He has been wanting to go to the SSPX chapel and is actually working on his behavior. Most kids want to go to Chuck E Cheese as a reward. This kid wants to go to the a chapel.
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#5
I shared this on my blog, and I agree with you guys assessment, but there's one other thing.  Mr Schaetzel is a member of the Anglican Ordinariate. No problem there. If it had existed when I left the Anglican Church, I might never have taken a detour through Orthodoxy. However, whilst he recommends attendance at the POCSP and brags on its 'conservative' Bishop for 'basically nullif(ying) that one controversial footnote in Amoris Laetitia that so many of us hyperventilate about', I would point out that that Bishop (not a former Anglican, BTW) is the same Bishop who excommunicated Father Vaughn Treco ( who IS  a former Anglican) for the 'crime' of being a Catholic who dared tell the truth about the crisis in the Church. As far as I'm concerned, that definitely puts Bishop Lopes on the 'Left', since he's obviously more concerned about his career than he is about Truth and the Church.
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#6
On the one hand, this article is sounding the alarm about the Leftists possibly excommunicating bishops who disagree with the Amazon Synod, while at the same time thinking the faithful can move from a liberal parish to a conservative one, or in a mostly leftist diocese, seek out a traditionalist parish with regular canonical standing.  I think that's just a bit too optimistic.  But I think he might be spot on with the purpose of the Amazon Synod.  I'm an ardent supporter of the SSPX, so his assessment of the 1988 excommunications is off the mark, as far as I'm concerned.  He encouragement for the faithful stuck with a leftist bishop to take refugee in FSSP, ICKSP, and POCSP parishes might work okay until Pope Francis himself decides to shake up these traditionalist groups.  After all, the price of their having a "voice" in the Vatican these days is obedience to Pope Francis.  If the priests of these groups refuse that, and I suspect that many of them will, they'll find themselves in a boat that's sailing right next to the SSPX ship.  If the modernists are planning to use the Amazon Synod to try and root out traditional resistance to their errors, there's no place that'll be safe.  We'll have to face their sanctions, their threats, even their declarations of excommunication, with faith in, and obedience to, Jesus Christ and the Church that He founded, the Roman Catholic Church.
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#7
(09-15-2019, 04:24 PM)SeekerofChrist Wrote: On the one hand, this article is sounding the alarm about the Leftists possibly excommunicating bishops who disagree with the Amazon Synod, while at the same time thinking the faithful can move from a liberal parish to a conservative one, or in a mostly leftist diocese, seek out a traditionalist parish with regular canonical standing.  I think that's just a bit too optimistic.  But I think he might be spot on with the purpose of the Amazon Synod.  I'm an ardent supporter of the SSPX, so his assessment of the 1988 excommunications is off the mark, as far as I'm concerned.  He encouragement for the faithful stuck with a leftist bishop to take refugee in FSSP, ICKSP, and POCSP parishes might work okay until Pope Francis himself decides to shake up these traditionalist groups.  After all, the price of their having a "voice" in the Vatican these days is obedience to Pope Francis.  If the priests of these groups refuse that, and I suspect that many of them will, they'll find themselves in a boat that's sailing right next to the SSPX ship.  If the modernists are planning to use the Amazon Synod to try and root out traditional resistance to their errors, there's no place that'll be safe.  We'll have to face their sanctions, their threats, even their declarations of excommunication, with faith in, and obedience to, Jesus Christ and the Church that He founded, the Roman Catholic Church.

I'll happily sail on the SSPX boat. And does anyone think I'll believe I'm excommunicated if I defend orthodoxy?

We have a wingnut rainbow flag waving, illegal alien ass kissing parish in Oregon that is said to be in good standing, but people like us will be excommunicated? Sorry, but if it ever gets that bad then they can take their censure and...watch an old WWE clip of the Rock if you want details.

I'm not the type of Catholic that will skip NO if it is all that is available. But despite a few points where I break from the SSPX, I have of late come to view myself as a soft Lefebvrian. However, if things go too far over the edge, I may be forced into a hard stance.

I really never want that to be the case. Yes, Eastern rites are an option for attendance, I would love to attend one, but my heart is Latin. I could never swap church membership because I believe in transubstantiation as taught, Purgatory and Limbo as taught, the reverence of genuflecting (not to knock Eastern bowing)... yes, the East is Catholic and I love their style and devotions...but my heart is Latin. And if the SSPX ever becomes the last resort, I am all in.

I think I speak for a lot of people here when I say... I love the Latin Church and I don't want to see it decimated. That's what it comes down to. WE LOVE OUR CHURCH! 

And I think a lot of our discontent is rooted in hurt and sadness.
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#8
(09-15-2019, 09:07 PM)redneckpride4ever Wrote: I'll happily sail on the SSPX boat. And does anyone think I'll believe I'm excommunicated if I defend orthodoxy?

We have a wingnut rainbow flag waving, illegal alien ass kissing parish in Oregon that is said to be in good standing, but people like us will be excommunicated? Sorry, but if it ever gets that bad then they can take their censure and...watch an old WWE clip of the Rock if you want details.

I'm not the type of Catholic that will skip NO if it is all that is available. But despite a few points where I break from the SSPX, I have of late come to view myself as a soft Lefebvrian. However, if things go too far over the edge, I may be forced into a hard stance.

The question of attending the NO or avoiding it all together has been a difficult one for me.  On the one hand, my home parish has a priest who, as far as I can tell, really is a conservative NO type.  However, due to a new plan in organizing my diocese, he will almost certainly be pastoring another parish by the summer of 2020.  On top of that, I've noticed what I've begun to call "stealth modernism."  Due to my schedule, I sometimes have to attend a Mass in a neighboring town.  I will notice that a priest will appear to be mostly conservative, but eventually, he'll say something akin to Bishop Barron's "maybe Hell will be empty" remark.  I suppose that's extremely mild compared to what some Catholics are stuck with, but I still find it problematic.  One of the dangers of the NO can be summed up by a quote from the Exorcist film: " He is a liar. The demon is a liar. He will lie to confuse us. But he will also mix lies with the truth to attack us."  I am NOT calling the NO demonic or NO priests demons but the problem, as I see it, is that errors get mixed in with the Truth, so that one can end up in confusion or even eventually fall into error through watered down or erroneous homilies.  I'm closer to the hard stance these days, though I wouldn't say the faithful should avoid the NO.  One must be careful, though, in choosing to attend a NO parish regularly.  If push comes to shove, though, and the Amazon Synod morphs into some instrument to try and hammer the traditional resistance, I've no qualms about avoiding the NO all together and sticking with my nearest SSPX chapel.
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#9
Fast and pray it doesn't happen! Cardinal Burke and Bishop Sneider are calling for a 40 day crusade of prayer and fasting starting on Sept. 17th through Oct. 26. St. Joseph, Patron of the Universal Church, pray for us.



"Not only are we all in the same boat, but we are all seasick.” --G.K. Chesterton
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