Legal Cannabis and Morality
#34
(09-17-2019, 06:26 PM)1Faith Wrote:
Quote:But there are other grave sins which tie into marijuana use, particularly scandal.
Correct, that's a very good point. Smoking a blunt at a marijuana festival or social club would without a doubt be scandalous for a Catholic to do. Doing it in the privacy of one's home away from any children would be a different matter.

What do children have to do with this? If it's not a evil thing then smoking marijuana around children is fine. If it is an evil then then you shouldn't be using it.

Further, scandal goes beyond your use. How are you obtaining the marijuana? If through a legal channel, are you not then supporting an industry that promotes recreational use of marijuana? Is that not sinful? Are you not also going to be known to others as a marijuana user? Will than not encourage others to use? Are you known as a Catholic? If they find out you use marijuana, will you not then be effectively telling others it is not a sin, so encouraging them?

Scandal is not just about hiding your activity from others so they are not tempted.

(09-17-2019, 06:26 PM)1Faith Wrote:
Quote:Only puritans or those trying to promote recreational use of drugs will make some equivalence between the bit of caffeine in my morning coffee and a caffeine pill.
So is taking a caffeine pill sinful? That would be bad news for me, i've been taking a caffeine pill every day I work before work for nearly a decade now. I'm a cook at a busy casino, I'm constantly on my feet and moving fast all day long, I'd have a hard time doing that without those caffeine pills.

You've clearly missed the point of that bit, which was not about you.

My point was that breeding plants and extracting psychoactive chemicals to make them more potent is the whole reason we're even speaking about this.

I think the idea of popping caffeine pills isn't sinful, but it's a bit off. Why don't you just have a tea or coffee? The danger of pills is that you can much more easily become dependent, i.e. addicted. Having a coffee takes time and you can't easily chug down 5 cups to get 500 mg of caffeine without some other issues. You certainly can do that with 5 pills.

(09-17-2019, 06:26 PM)1Faith Wrote:
Quote:People smoke and consume marijuana for the high.
That's true in many cases. However, as I've explained, there are high-cbd, low-thc strains of cannabis that are becoming increasingly popular and are not used to induce a high. They are used to induce relaxation and relief of anxiety. I fail to see how mild use of such strains is morally different from having two glasses of red wine in the evening.

The Pontifical Council for Pastor Health Care in 2012 assessed that the intoxicating effects of an average joint, independent of it's other effects is the equivalent of a 1.5 ounces of pure alcohol. It also suggested that one joint causes the damage equivalent to 4-5 cigarettes. So if you want to compare having a joint to taking a shot of Everclear and then sucking down 4-5 cigarettes, fine. I'd suggest that's not normal or good behavior.

To this must be added that since CBD and THC are fat-soluble thus enter brain tissue much more easily, their principle effects last for 6-8 hours even in moderate use of marijuana, their long-term effects can last for weeks, so their effects can be cumulative, and thus a second joint can have more of an effect. There are also other toxins that are released and pass into the brain, so these toxic effects are cumulative, unlike alcohol.

Alcohol, on the other hand has little to no effect in moderation for most people up to about 3 standard units. It is only beyond this point (which can vary in some) that longer-term effects can be seen, and usually only when abusive use occurs are effects in the 6-8 hour range seen. In moderate use the effects of alcohol are not cumulative.

Having said that, someone who has two glasses of wine every evening is not, in my mind, using alcohol moderately. He may not be an alcoholic or drunkard, but such regular use will in at least some generate a dependence. The Mayo Clinic, for instance, defines "moderate use" of alcohol as the equivalent of one drink per day.

So, we're not comparing apples and oranges here.

(09-17-2019, 06:26 PM)1Faith Wrote:
Quote:Legitimate medical use would involve extracting the chemicals which are beneficial and using those separately, not smoking.
There's a major problem with that line of thinking. The cannabinoids in Cannabis work together synergistically; this is referred to as the "entourage effect". I use a full spectrum cbd tincture daily, which is a whole-plant extract derived from hemp flower. It includes all the cannabinoids in the plant, with thc constituting less than .3%. These preparations work better than isolated preparations because the cannabinoids work more efficiently in the presence of each other. As an example lets consider a cancer patient suffering from extreme nausea. If you were to give them a pill of pure thc, it would relieve the nausea but could induce strong anxiety. This has been often reported by patients who take Marinol, which is pure synthetic thc. However, if that same patient takes a balanced extract of cannabis containing a proportionately high quantity of cbd, the anti-nausea effects of the thc would be in place, but the anxiety-inducing effects of the thc would be mitigated by the presence of cbd. Long story short, your presumption that isolated cannabinoids are more effective is demonstrably erroneous. All of that said, I will agree that smoking is not a good idea, and there are countless varieties of whole-plant extract that eliminate the need to smoke cannabis flower.

Firstly, 0.3% THC levels can be extracted from industrial hemp. No need for marijuana.

Secondly, I didn't say that "isolated cannabinoids are more effective", nor did I suggest giving pills of pure THC. I said that legitimate medical use will involve extracting the effective chemicals to minimize side-effects and harms. CBD oil is an extraction. One is not eating or smoking marijuana in such a case, he is using an extract, and by reducing THC levels to 0.3%, eliminating or at least minimizing any psychoactive effects.

There are a myriad of ways to do this: Synthetic cannabinoids, extractive oils, pills of cocktails of those that show the proper effects, but my point was that there is no legitimate medical use in smoking marijuana.

CBD oil or tincture is not what I'm talking about here. I know of no one who says this is sinful. We're speaking of marijuana use, which is a in itself mortal sin, admitting of circumstances which might reduce its sinfulness (very low grade stuff, once in a blue moon use, etc. Note, I did not say eliminate sinfulness, but reduce.

I would say that the culture that surrounds marijuana is itself an occasion of scandal and sin.

(09-17-2019, 06:26 PM)1Faith Wrote:
Quote: But, no one is going to smoke or consume hemp.
You must not be aware of the booming hemp-flower industry then. Since the 2018 farm bill that descheduled hemp, smokeable hemp flower has become very popular. Why would anyone smoke that? Because the hundreds of cannabinoids in the plant induce relaxation, just without the head high and euphoria induced by thc. I've smoked hemp flower before and it does have a noticeable psychoactive effect, just without being in any way intoxicating. Its like being very relaxed but with a completely clear head.

And yet it has a psychoactive effect, and, I am sure many of the detrimental effects of smoking as well.

And again, where do you find said flower ... at the shops which sell marijuana and promote marijuana use ... so again, we're back to the same scandalous subculture.

(09-17-2019, 06:26 PM)1Faith Wrote: I highly recommend watching the CNN documentary series "Weed". Its available for free on YouTube. There you will find countless stories of people who have suffered debilitating diseases and have found tremendously relief from the use of (whole-plant) cannabis. This whole notion that whole-plant medicine is somehow not medicinal is a product of a blind faith in the Pharmaceutical industry. Often times plant medicines work much better than pharmaceuticals do, with far fewer side effects. After all, God gave us the plants of the earth for food and medicine.

:jester:

CNN ... really?

That documentary is typical of political pieces. It starts from a fine premise (that there are some legitimate medical benefits from cannabis) and then goes on to try to blur the lines between the beneficial effects which can be had through extractives and pharmaceutical preparations to smoking marijuana.

It follows the same bait-and-switch tactic as the "medical marijuana" crowd : push for medical marijuana, not medical research and the production of safe extractives and pharmaceuticals, then once people are convinced to allow "medical marijuana" claim it is safe and push for full-on legalization for recreational use. In doing so compare with alcohol and cigarettes, neglecting to make the necessary distinctions of effects ("its safer than cigarettes, and no different than a glass of wine")

Sort of like what we read above ...
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Messages In This Thread
Legal Cannabis and Morality - by 1Faith - 09-17-2019, 01:52 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Some Guy - 09-17-2019, 06:25 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Paul - 09-17-2019, 10:49 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Paul - 09-17-2019, 02:21 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by piscis - 09-17-2019, 12:14 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by piscis - 09-17-2019, 01:22 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Paul - 09-17-2019, 01:44 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by piscis - 09-17-2019, 02:21 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Paul - 09-17-2019, 02:37 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by piscis - 09-17-2019, 02:58 PM
Legal Cannabis and Morality - by 1Faith - 09-17-2019, 01:27 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by piscis - 09-17-2019, 02:09 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by 1Faith - 09-17-2019, 02:19 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Paul - 09-17-2019, 02:26 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by piscis - 09-17-2019, 03:00 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by piscis - 09-17-2019, 02:30 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by 1Faith - 09-17-2019, 02:38 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by 1Faith - 09-17-2019, 06:26 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by MagisterMusicae - 09-17-2019, 09:36 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by VoxClamantis - 09-18-2019, 03:36 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Augustinian - 09-17-2019, 06:37 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by 1Faith - 09-17-2019, 06:42 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Augustinian - 09-17-2019, 06:47 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by 1Faith - 09-17-2019, 06:54 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Augustinian - 09-17-2019, 06:59 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by 1Faith - 09-17-2019, 07:06 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by piscis - 09-17-2019, 07:27 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Paul - 09-17-2019, 11:19 PM
Legal Cannabis and Morality - by 1Faith - 09-17-2019, 07:33 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by 1Faith - 09-17-2019, 10:09 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Augustinian - 09-17-2019, 11:14 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Blind Horus - 09-18-2019, 12:40 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by VoxClamantis - 09-18-2019, 04:54 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Melkite - 09-20-2019, 09:51 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by piscis - 09-21-2019, 11:14 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Blind Horus - 09-20-2019, 03:35 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by piscis - 09-26-2019, 10:14 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Florus - 09-26-2019, 06:55 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by BigSamoz - 11-03-2020, 12:48 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Ioannes_L - 11-03-2020, 02:16 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Dancing Lion - 11-18-2020, 03:46 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Some Guy - 11-20-2020, 11:23 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by LionHippo - 11-20-2020, 09:26 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Blind Horus - 11-20-2020, 11:26 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by FultonFan - 11-21-2020, 11:49 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by 1Faith - 11-23-2020, 10:33 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Harryman9090 - 12-08-2020, 03:33 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Melkite - 12-09-2020, 10:33 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Pandora - 12-09-2020, 12:31 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Melkite - 12-09-2020, 01:03 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by FultonFan - 12-09-2020, 06:53 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by IudicaMe - 03-25-2021, 11:22 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Marmot - 03-25-2021, 11:58 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Marmot - 03-25-2021, 12:59 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by 1Faith - 03-25-2021, 11:59 AM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by AlanK82 - 03-25-2021, 01:19 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by AlanK82 - 03-25-2021, 01:16 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by IudicaMe - 03-25-2021, 01:19 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Marmot - 03-25-2021, 05:05 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by J Michael - 03-25-2021, 08:28 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by AlanK82 - 03-25-2021, 01:49 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by IudicaMe - 03-25-2021, 01:57 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by AlanK82 - 03-25-2021, 02:17 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Melkite - 03-25-2021, 02:33 PM
Legal Cannabis and Morality - by 1Faith - 03-25-2021, 02:21 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by AlanK82 - 03-25-2021, 04:35 PM
RE: Legal Cannabis and Morality - by Blind Horus - 03-25-2021, 05:12 PM



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