Tasting notes from my travels in American Christianity
#21
(10-11-2019, 07:08 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(10-11-2019, 01:23 AM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: I am willing to concede that partially. For sure there are cultural distinctions that I just don't appreciate. However ugliness is also explicitly built into their aesthetics. Like I said with Byzantine iconography. It's not just my opinion that they look ugly. They are designed to be visually unappealing to direct ones thoughts beyond the material to the spiritual. That is the fundamental raison d'etre of the style, per Orthodox theologians. Making the people look anything other than sickly and freaky is a corruption of the style and a criticism they levy toward Catholic art.

Are we looking at the same icons?  They're certainly intended to look a bit unrealistic to emphasize otherwordliness, but I've never heard anyone say they are supposed to look sickly.   Do they seem more sickly in appearance to you than some renaissance paintings of pasty-white, bloated saints?


Lol, come now folks, we're all pretty.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#22
Quote:I've not researched it enough, personally id rather be safe then sorry, so I would personally go any traditional parish still tied to Rome if I had the option
Even if you dont accept the SSPX argument for supplied jurisdiction, which is very strong, you still have no worries. Rome has given ordinary jurisdiction to the SSPX to hear confessions. So confession is both valid and licit.

Now, if it was sinful to assist at an SSPX mass this would be perfectly absurd. Why? Because to make a valid confession one must resolve to avoid sin and the near occasion of sin. If assisting at an SSPX mass was sinful in itself, one could by definition not receive a valid absolution. So by giving ordinary jurisdiction for confessions, Rome has de facto acknowledged that Catholics may assist at an SSPX mass without any sin on their part. In fact, Rome has further stated that if one goes to an SSPX mass because of love for the TLM and not out of a desire to separate from Rome, there is no sin.

Also, one has the right to attend mass in their own rite. Your rite is the Roman Rite, not the manufactured Novus Ordo rite. If the SSPX is the only group in town offering your rite, you are perfectly fine to go there. So no worries! Go to the SSPX if you are able.

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#23
(10-12-2019, 01:59 AM)Blind Horus Wrote: >mindless, stupid sheep

I fail to understand how in the world do people, (who likely have had not actual contact with sheep), come off calling sheep stupid.

Number 1, people used to call children lambs not kids 
Number 2, oh never mind  

Interesting tidbit: I mentioned to a sister, who keeps sheep and whose place is on a running river, 'animals like to drink from running water', her reply, 'not sheep, they like still waters'. Ah, I thinks, the 22nd psalms, (which I've recently seen has had the wording changed,, (prolly reflecting some environmental  BS).

>end rant

Lol I agree that sheep aren't stupid, but a saying is a saying. I didn't realize people actually read my words that closely.  ;)
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#24
(10-12-2019, 06:07 PM)piscis Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 01:59 AM)Blind Horus Wrote: >mindless, stupid sheep

I fail to understand how in the world do people, (who likely have had not actual contact with sheep), come off calling sheep stupid.

Number 1, people used to call children lambs not kids 
Number 2, oh never mind  

Interesting tidbit: I mentioned to a sister, who keeps sheep and whose place is on a running river, 'animals like to drink from running water', her reply, 'not sheep, they like still waters'. Ah, I thinks, the 22nd psalms, (which I've recently seen has had the wording changed,, (prolly reflecting some environmental  BS).

>end rant

Lol I agree that sheep aren't stupid, but a saying is a saying. I didn't realize people actually read my words that closely.  ;)

Pet peeve
Oh, where are the snows of yesteryear!
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#25
(10-12-2019, 12:26 PM)1Faith Wrote: If the SSPX is the only group in town offering your rite, you are perfectly fine to go there. So no worries! Go to the SSPX if you are able.

I wish I even had the option. :)

God Bless You
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#26
Quote:I wish I even had the option.
If there no tlm whatsoever that you can get to, you should really consider going to an eastern rite parish. Byzantine, Ukranian, Syrian, Chaldean, one of those rites. They'll be really strange at first but they are genuine venerable ancient rites of the Church. That's a much better option than any novus ordo.

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#27
(10-12-2019, 09:39 PM)1Faith Wrote: If there no tlm whatsoever that you can get to, you should really consider going to an eastern rite parish. Byzantine, Ukranian, Syrian, Chaldean, one of those rites. They'll be really strange at first but they are genuine venerable ancient rites of the Church. That's a much better option than any novus ordo.

My only option is N.O. or Protestantism and I could never go Protestantism, since if Christ is not there truly present body, blood, soul and divinity in the Holy Eucharist there would be no point even going IMO.

God Bless You
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#28
(10-12-2019, 12:17 PM)JacafamalaRedux Wrote: Lol, come now folks, we're all pretty.

I really like some of the Orthodox art. :)

God Bless
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#29
(10-12-2019, 09:57 PM)josh987654321 Wrote: My only option is N.O. or Protestantism and I could never go Protestantism, since if Christ is not there truly present body, blood, soul and divinity in the Holy Eucharist there would be no point even going IMO.

God Bless You

You can also try to change the N.O.  I have had some luck doing this, albeit very slowly and frustratingly.  I would like to discuss this further and even make a thread about what I've been able to accomplish, but I know for a fact that too many people in my area that I know personally lurk here, and so I don't want to give myself away.  Kind of a tough situation.

Anyway, one tip:  Propose the N.O. in Latin and ad orientem.  Don't go right for demanding the TLM with all the fixin's.

Also, just to be clear: I do like some Orthodox stuff and think it can be beautiful.  In general, I do not.  However, my personal opinion is irrelevant to the point that Orthodox art, in the Byzantine style, is purposefully off putting.  Even if one were to disagree, that is not the intention of the artists.
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#30
One could probably say that there are aspects of Evangelical Protestantism that Catholicism could emulate. However, none of those should involve the liturgy, sacraments, theology, among many others. If anything it's the aspects of community and zealousness that seems to exist... at least externally anyway. You can compare the highly Protestant southern US compared to lots of other places in the country and the way they talk about God.
Blood of Christ, relief of the burdened, save us.

“It is my design to die in the brew house; let ale be placed in my mouth when I am expiring, that when the choirs of angels come, they may say, “Be God propitious to this drinker.” – St. Columbanus, A.D. 612
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