Bishop Gracida condemns Bergoglio for Vatican Garden Rituals
#21
(10-10-2019, 06:10 AM)josh987654321 Wrote:
(10-09-2019, 10:43 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: Not to say that this is good but Pope John Paul II, you know the Saint, participated in pagan rituals more than a few times, not just witnessed them. If it's a sin against the First Commandment (and it is), then that Saint did so, and never repented of it ...

LOL oh really? please share this information with us, I assume you have a reliable source and pictures?

It's also one thing to be invited to an event which may have Pagans and Idols at it, it's quite another to invite Pagans and their Idols to the Vatican. It's one thing if I visit a persons home with Idols in it, it's quite another if I welcome these Idols as a gift into my own home.

If you are seriously ignorant of the sacrilegious horror of Assisi as well as all of the world ecumenical prayer days that occurred over the next few decades, you have lost all credibility to be "theorizing" or discussing any of this. Assisi was on a scale so much larger than this Francis pagan ritual. It was one of the events that spurred Abp. Lefebvre to seriously consider the episcopal consecrations.

https://sspx.org/en/1986-joint-declarati...nst-assisi
https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/abp...sisi-18019
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/0...-1987.html

Statue of Buddha placed over the tabernacle: https://mundabor.files.wordpress.com/201...buddha.jpg
If you want color, here you go: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CwfUMfxzDmk/Td...ateral.jpg

And since you asked for pictures, here's even better, a video: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2OS7Fz1I8

And a short documentary from the perspective of the Orthodox Church of Greece, Synod in Resistance, which looks at more than just Assisi, and pretty much sums up JPII's long history of ecumenical sacrilege and blasphemy: 
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#22
(10-10-2019, 06:10 AM)josh987654321 Wrote:
(10-09-2019, 10:43 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: If this is grounds for suggesting those who hold Francis is not be Pope have a point, the only logical thing is to also deny that to John Paul II, along with his Canonization ...

Just saying ...

Not at all, for the above, and the fact that you criticized me for quoting prophecy you believe to be spurious, yet you haven't provided a shred of evidence yet for this claim against St Pope John Paul II.

Seeing as it was only in the same post that you asked for evidence, that's a pretty rude statement.

I would note that you never provided evidence of the authenticity of that "prophecy".

(10-10-2019, 06:10 AM)josh987654321 Wrote:
(10-09-2019, 10:43 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: Not to say that this is good but Pope John Paul II, you know the Saint, participated in pagan rituals more than a few times, not just witnessed them. If it's a sin against the First Commandment (and it is), then that Saint did so, and never repented of it ...

LOL oh really? please share this information with us, I assume you have a reliable source and pictures?

It's also one thing to be invited to an event which may have Pagans and Idols at it, it's quite another to invite Pagans and their Idols to the Vatican. It's one thing if I visit a persons home with Idols in it, it's quite another if I welcome these Idols as a gift into my own home.

On 1 Aug, 2002, John Paul II was in Mexico at the Cathedral of Our Lady of Guadalupe. He was there saying Mass and Canonizing two Mexicans who in 1700 who shed their blood to stop a pagan ritual allowed himself to be exorcised by a pagan witch doctor at the Canonization.
(No fan of TIA, and recommend avoiding their stuff, but here they have details : https://www.traditioninaction.org/Revolu...essing.htm)

On 2 Feb, 1986 while in India, at a Mass at a stadium the Pope was annointed with the Tilak, which is the mark which is a red powdery paste, which marks the person as a worshiper of Shiva (it is the marking of the "third eye" of this pagan deity). Afterward the Pontifical Council for Social Communications claimed that this was the "Aarti" and that this is not a religious symbol. These actions, however, are only ever performed in Hindu religious events, so this was the Pope himself, perhaps mistakenly, participating in a pagan ritual.

This ceremony occurred again on 7 Nov 1999 and the official description of the ceremonies written by Msgr Marini indicates this and that there will be a Votive Mass of Christ the Light of the World because of the pagan Indian "Festival of Lights".

So lets give the Pope the benefit of the doubt, leaving Assisi aside. Pope John Paul II participated at least unknowingly in three arguably pagan rituals in the context of Masses he was celebrating. He did not fire his MC who had arranged these, so at least did not see any issue with them.

Then there's Assisi and it's pagan symbolism and what was allowed there. Add to this it was repeated several times and commemorated by even Pope Benedict.
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#23
(10-10-2019, 12:46 PM)piscis Wrote: Statue of Buddha placed over the tabernacle: https://mundabor.files.wordpress.com/201...buddha.jpg

I can't see the Buddha statue in that photo? too small to see really much of anything. Neither do I see St Pope John Paul II.

(10-10-2019, 12:46 PM)piscis Wrote: And a short documentary from the perspective of the Orthodox Church of Greece, Synod in Resistance, which looks at more than just Assisi, and pretty much sums up JPII's long history of ecumenical sacrilege and blasphemy: 

Don't have time to watch it all now, I skimmed though it and will watch it later, however, like I said, it's one thing to be invited to an event with pagans and their idols at it, it's quite another to invite pagans and their idols to worship into your own home.

And again, the reason I laugh, is because I think it's absurd that one could look at Francis and everything he is doing, and then try to liken him to St Pope John Paul II claiming that nothing has changed, same old same old.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
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#24
(10-10-2019, 03:56 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: I would note that you never provided evidence of the authenticity of that "prophecy".

I provided the source though, and then I explained why I thought it was credible. One can't make accusations like that without at least a source.

(10-09-2019, 10:43 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: On 1 Aug, 2002, John Paul II was in Mexico at the Cathedral of Our Lady of Guadalupe. He was there saying Mass and Canonizing two Mexicans who in 1700 who shed their blood to stop a pagan ritual allowed himself to be exorcised by a pagan witch doctor at the Canonization.
(No fan of TIA, and recommend avoiding their stuff, but here they have details : https://www.traditioninaction.org/Revolu...essing.htm)

Well that's unfair IMO, he hardly looks in a position to stop or counsel against it in the Photo considering the condition he was in.

(10-09-2019, 10:43 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: On 2 Feb, 1986 while in India, at a Mass at a stadium the Pope was annointed with the Tilak, which is the mark which is a red powdery paste, which marks the person as a worshiper of Shiva (it is the marking of the "third eye" of this pagan deity). Afterward the Pontifical Council for Social Communications claimed that this was the "Aarti" and that this is not a religious symbol. These actions, however, are only ever performed in Hindu religious events, so this was the Pope himself, perhaps mistakenly, participating in a pagan ritual.

Do you have a picture? or video?

(10-09-2019, 10:43 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: So lets give the Pope the benefit of the doubt, leaving Assisi aside. Pope John Paul II participated at least unknowingly in three arguably pagan rituals in the context of Masses he was celebrating. He did not fire his MC who had arranged these, so at least did not see any issue with them.

Sure, we can give St Pope John Paul II the benefit of the doubt, same with Pope Benedict XVI, because these people fought for Christ on many occasions, what I take huge issue with, is the idea that therefore we should give Francis the benefit of the doubt, early into it sure, but one after the other we see a clear agenda, unprecedented. So yea, I take huge issue with the idea that there is nothing new happening with Francis and that everything he is doing is somehow just business as usual, I have no idea how one can reconcile that.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
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#25
(10-09-2019, 10:43 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(10-09-2019, 11:22 AM)Augustinian Wrote: I'll admit, after this, I am kind of starting to see where the Benevacantists may be onto something.

Not to say that this is good but Pope John Paul II, you know the Saint, participated in pagan rituals more than a few times, not just witnessed them. If it's a sin against the First Commandment (and it is), then that Saint did so, and never repented of it ...

If this is grounds for suggesting those who hold Francis is not be Pope have a point, the only logical thing is to aslo deny that to John Paul II, along with his Canonization ...

Just saying ...

Agreed. Francis really isn't all that unique, if you decide he isn't pope I don't see any reason to stop there.
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#26
(10-10-2019, 07:47 PM)Florus Wrote: Agreed. Francis really isn't all that unique,

I know right, every Pope invites pagans to worship idols before him in the Vatican gardens, it's like a right of passage... Is there anything he could do that would be unprecedented in your eyes?

When did St Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI etc sit among pagans while they worshiped idols in the Vatican gardens?

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless
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#27
(10-10-2019, 07:47 PM)Florus Wrote: if you decide he isn't pope I don't see any reason to stop there.

Exactly, and that's the crux of the argument, and why I take offense at St Pope John Paul II being likened to Francis because I take offense at everything Francis is doing.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
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#28
(10-10-2019, 07:31 PM)josh987654321 Wrote:
(10-10-2019, 03:56 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: I would note that you never provided evidence of the authenticity of that "prophecy".

I provided the source though, and then I explained why I thought it was credible. One can't make accusations like that without at least a source.

(10-09-2019, 10:43 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: On 1 Aug, 2002, John Paul II was in Mexico at the Cathedral of Our Lady of Guadalupe. He was there saying Mass and Canonizing two Mexicans who in 1700 who shed their blood to stop a pagan ritual allowed himself to be exorcised by a pagan witch doctor at the Canonization.
(No fan of TIA, and recommend avoiding their stuff, but here they have details : https://www.traditioninaction.org/Revolu...essing.htm)

Well that's unfair IMO, he hardly looks in a position to stop or counsel against it in the Photo considering the condition he was in.

(10-09-2019, 10:43 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: On 2 Feb, 1986 while in India, at a Mass at a stadium the Pope was annointed with the Tilak, which is the mark which is a red powdery paste, which marks the person as a worshiper of Shiva (it is the marking of the "third eye" of this pagan deity). Afterward the Pontifical Council for Social Communications claimed that this was the "Aarti" and that this is not a religious symbol. These actions, however, are only ever performed in Hindu religious events, so this was the Pope himself, perhaps mistakenly, participating in a pagan ritual.

Do you have a picture? or video?

(10-09-2019, 10:43 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: So lets give the Pope the benefit of the doubt, leaving Assisi aside. Pope John Paul II participated at least unknowingly in three arguably pagan rituals in the context of Masses he was celebrating. He did not fire his MC who had arranged these, so at least did not see any issue with them.

Sure, we can give St Pope John Paul II the benefit of the doubt, same with Pope Benedict XVI, because these people fought for Christ on many occasions, what I take huge issue with, is the idea that therefore we should give Francis the benefit of the doubt, early into it sure, but one after the other we see a clear agenda, unprecedented. So yea, I take huge issue with the idea that there is nothing new happening with Francis and that everything he is doing is somehow just business as usual, I have no idea how one can reconcile that.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You

Below you will find the photos which Magister is talking about.

[Image: Tilak.jpg]
JPII being anointed with the Pagan sign of the "Tilak"

Source: http://www.the-pope.com/jp2.html

[Image: 169_BuddhaAssisi01.JPG]
The Buddha statue placed over the Tabernacle in Assisi

[Image: 169_BuddhaAssisi03.JPG]
A wide shot of the same Buddha statue in Assisi

Further reading: https://www.traditioninaction.org/Revolu...Assisi.htm
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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#29
(10-10-2019, 07:31 PM)josh98765432 Wrote:
(10-09-2019, 10:43 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: On 1 Aug, 2002, John Paul II was in Mexico at the Cathedral of Our Lady of Guadalupe. He was there saying Mass and Canonizing two Mexicans who in 1700 who shed their blood to stop a pagan ritual allowed himself to be exorcised by a pagan witch doctor at the Canonization.
(No fan of TIA, and recommend avoiding their stuff, but here they have details : https://www.traditioninaction.org/Revolu...essing.htm)

Well that's unfair IMO, he hardly looks in a position to stop or counsel against it in the Photo considering the condition he was in.

Don't know much about Papal Masses, eh? They're choreographed within an inch of their lives, so to speak. People don't just waltz up to the celebrant and insert their own ritual. They are planned by the Papal Master of Ceremonies. I assume the plans are signed off on by the Pope, but in a case like this, if the plan wasn't approved, and the MC sneaked this in, it SHOULD have meant the immediate firing of the MC. Didn't happen. The same MC was responsible for semi-nude female dancers at Papal masses and other equally horrifying things.

I seem to recall that you are in your mid 20s. Those of us old enough to have lived through the Pontificate of JP II remember many things that were heretical, bordering on apostasy. Assisi, the Koran kissing, other things mentioned in this thread,

When the rush was on to canonise all the 'Conciliar' Popes in an effort to 'canonise the Council', I said, on another forum, that John Paul II might very well go down in history as the worst Pope in history. After a year or two of Francis I went back on that forum and offered an apology to the shade of JP II. He can no longer be the worst Pope in history, but for now, as far as I'm concerned he has a lock on number two.

Some of the worst abusers and enablers of abuse, McCarrick for example, were made Bishops by him. He was so concerned about defeating communism (for which I applaud him) that he paid little attention to what was going on in the Church.

And before you, or anyone else, brings up the Popes of the 10th century Pornocracy, or the Renaissance Popes, they were sinners, but they were Catholic! Their sins were personal. They did not honour the Koran, participate in pagan rituals, and try to change the Faith.

I am one of those who leans toward the 'canonisations are infallible' side of the argument, and I have no way of knowing the state of JP II's soul at his death, so I assume he is in heaven, but I, for one, never have and never will give him the title 'Saint'. Saints are supposed to be role models, and I wouldn't want any future Pope, or any Catholic for that matter, to use him as a role model.
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#30
(10-10-2019, 08:37 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: And before you, or anyone else, brings up the Popes of the 10th century Pornocracy, or the Renaissance Popes, they were sinners, but they were Catholic! Their sins were personal. They did not honour the Koran, participate in pagan rituals, and try to change the Faith.

You know, that's one of the more startling things about the past 50 years. Yes, Pope Alexander VI was an infamously immoral pope, but he did not ever alter doctrine or liturgy. His personal sins were his own, he didn't seek to change the Church to fit his image.

I would much rather have a pope who is a bad person in their personal life but leaves their mitts off of Catholic Tradition than a pope who publicly commits material heresy and encourages apostasy. What they do outside of the Chair of Peter is between them and Christ, but when they act with the authority of Peter they'd better damn well realize Whose Church it is.

May God have mercy on the Pope, Cardinals and Bishops.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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