Fr. Thomas Weinandy on "Pope Francis and Schism"
#1
This was pretty insightful: https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2019/10...nd-schism/
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#2
I've got admit, as a fairly recent convert, I've had to ask myself just what I have gotten myself into lately more than I am comfortable with.

To say that there is a schismatic church within the Church is nothing new. Abp. Lefebvre alluded heavily to this way back in his "An Open Letter to Confused Catholics" it's just now the veil had been rent in two and we see it for what it is.
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#3
I hear you, Augustinian, I'm a fairly recent revert and wonder the same.

I'm becoming sympathetic with protestants and understand why many reject the Catholic Church. I don't think it's the right approach, but I understand.

I've come the conclusion that the Pope can do whatever he wants, and this one will. We can complain all we want, but there's not a thing we can do about it. The faithful can withhold money, but there are enough blind followers who will fill the coffers of the institution for years to come.

I'll pray and find a Church that follows traditional teachings, until it doesn't, and then I'll find another that does. I'll pray and follow those teachings I know to be true.

What bothers me though, is that if I don't follow the teachings of a corrupt Pope and his entourage of corrupt bishops, am I not just another protestant?
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#4
(10-10-2019, 01:03 PM)jack89 Wrote: What bothers me though, is that if I don't follow the teachings of a corrupt Pope and his entourage of corrupt bishops, am I not just another protestant?

My thoughts on this aren't very sophisticated, but here's my thinking: I know that the Roman Catholic Church is the only True Church, the one founded by Jesus Christ.  I have no idea how to explain what happened at Vatican II and afterward.  I can't explain how Popes John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and now Francis fit in with traditional (i.e., true, infallible) Catholic teaching.  I can trust that what came before 1958 is undoubtedly true, authentic Catholic teaching.  Priests formed in the traditional manner (such as the SSPX) are the most reliable source for understanding traditional Catholic teaching.  Therefore, I don't go with my opinions in refusing to follow the Francis trainwreck-in-progress. Instead, I rely on authentic Catholic teaching that is taught to me by trustworthy Catholic priests.  Is this Protestant?  I do not think so.  When a Protestant doesn't like what his current ecclesial community is doing (but still likes how things used to be done), he simply finds a like-minded group in his current ecclesial community, and they form a new schismatic sect.  The Episcopal Church is a prime example of this after they decided to ordain practicing homosexuals and conduct same-sex "weddings."  Many conservatives in that denomination broke away and formed a new Anglican group in the United States and Canada, the Anglican Church in North America.  However, no one in the new ACNA pretended like they were the real Episcopal Church.  They knew they were a new group attempting to do a more traditional Anglican thing.  Not so with traditional Catholics.  We know there can be only one true Church.  Rejecting questionable teachings or practices, even when they come from the pope, isn't a crude Protestantism.  It is the best we can do in a lousy situation.
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#5
I'm tempted to go the SSPX route, move to St. Marys, KS and be done with it. Seriously though, I was initially put off by the SSPX, but now I get it.
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#6
(10-10-2019, 10:26 AM)Augustinian Wrote: I've got admit, as a fairly recent convert, I've had to ask myself just what I have gotten myself into lately more than I am comfortable with.

To say that there is a schismatic church within the Church is nothing new. Abp. Lefebvre alluded heavily to this way back in his "An Open Letter to Confused Catholics" it's just now the veil had been rent in two and we see it for what it is.

Be careful.

Archbishop Lefebvre was always very clear that he used this idea of a "Conciliar Church" within the Church as a convenient way of description, but not that there was some separate entity within. There could not be, nor could there be parallel Churches (one false, one true) headed by the same man. This "Conciliar Church" was that group of the Catholic hierarchy and faithful who were working to undermine Tradition.

And, as said before, what you are seeing now is terribly scandalous, but at least equal, if not worse has been done in the last 30 years by "Saintly" Popes.

Pope's have participated in pagan rituals, the Germans did not get this way overnight and were allowed to do many evil things, the Dutch introduced Communion in the Hand specifically against the Church Law and the Pope's Will and he caved only to see the rest of the world do the exact same.

In certain aspects, it's far worse today. In certain aspects, it's not much different than the days of Msgr Lefebvre.

If we begin to see the problems we should be careful not to be scandalized by them, but respond as Catholics.
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#7
Here's what I think....I honestly believe Francis is in on what the German Bishops want to do. He wants it. It's gonna happen the same way they got in girl altar boys and Communion in the hand. The Bishops will start the ball rolling, then it's going to spread like a virus everywhere while Francis will probably remain silent. Good cop, bad cop.

I'm guessing 80% of NO Catholics don't even know there's a Synod going on right now, and if they did most would be on board with Team Francis. The typical NO-ers will find out once the changes hit the local parish when the bishop tells them Mother Jane will be joining our parish family as Deacon and you're all invited to a meet and greet luncheon after the 11:00 itwo Sundays from now.

The Amazonian Synod and the wild statements of this Italian atheist journalist Scalfari are Francis' attempt to get rid of the trads. Sorry. That ain't gonna happen.
"Not only are we all in the same boat, but we are all seasick.” --G.K. Chesterton
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#8
(10-10-2019, 03:35 PM)JacafamalaRedux Wrote: Here's what I think....I honestly believe Francis is in on what the German Bishops want to do. He wants it. It's gonna happen the same way they got in girl altar boys and Communion in the hand. The Bishops will start the ball rolling, then it's going to spread like a virus everywhere while Francis will probably remain silent. Good cop, bad cop.

AMEN! My thoughts exactly.
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#9
(10-10-2019, 03:17 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: but respond as Catholics.

Which is?

All I know is that Christ founded One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and that the Gates of Hell will never prevail and that Francis is a heretic driving an agenda. I can only trust that after the Churches passion and death she will be restored.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

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#10
Quite honestly, I'm fatigued from constantly praying for the Church to avoid errors. Everyone always says that “Christ will prevail in the end” anyway, so I’m fine with that. Let Him prevail. But all of us have busy lives and problems of our own to begin with. We didn’t ask to be placed on this earth and many of us were just born into this faith to begin with. I have my own life and family to deal with, aside from constant worry and praying about the Church to “remain holy.”

The idea of a God who puts us in a position of constantly praying and working to keep holy a faith that He supposedly founded just doesn’t attract me. I’m exhausted doing this. I’m just going to wait out this Amazon Synod to see what happens. But I’m done praying and worrying. If the Church is on such a close precipice to the edge of doom that she’ll fail if LionHippo doesn’t say his prayer to St. Michael today, then I don’t know what to say. The Church is supposed to give me comfort and guidance, not the other way around.
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