Hypothetically, would ordination of women mean the gates of hell had prevailed?
#18
(10-13-2019, 02:28 PM)1Faith Wrote: The Church as no authority to convey the sacrament of Holy Orders on women. An attempt to do so would be invalid and constitute simulating a sacrament. Any Pope who approved women's ordination would commit formal heresy and sacrilege and would cut himself off from the Church and cease to be Pope. That Pope, and all prelates who followed him, would constitute nothing more than a schismatic and heretical sect, "Catholic" in name only. To follow that "Church" would be to follow it straight to Hell. A new Pope would need to be elected by the minority of orthodox prelates, and that would constitute the true Catholic Church. It could well happen, honestly. I wouldn't put much of anything past Francis.

If any of this happens, please, do not leave the Church. Do not jump ship to the Orthodox or to Protestantism. There is no salvation outside the Church, period, and to willfully leave it renders one's salvation impossible. Even if the whole of the mainstream hierarchy defects from the faith, there are still at least four Orthodox bishops (SSPX) left, and you can add to their number, I'm sure, Bishop Schneider, Cardinal Burke and others. This means there will continue to be Orthodox priests, valid masses, and valid sacraments. Just because the Church goes back to the catacombs does not mean the gates of Hell have prevailed against her.

Also, one note on Vatican 1. Vatican 1 really did not exalt Papal Authority to the level of the absurdity, it did the opposite in fact. Whereas many Catholics just assumed a kind of universality of infallibility as regards the Pope, the council defined the strict limits of papal infallibility. It is of note that neither Vatican 2, nor ANY statements of the Conciliar Popes, fall within the category of extraordinary magisterium. There is no guarantee of infallibility as regards a Pope's teaching outside of those defined conditions. As the council (V1) said, the Holy Ghost was not given to the Pope so that he could invent new doctrines, but so that he could saintly safeguard and explain the deposit of faith once for all delivered to the saints. If in the exercise of his magisterium he departs from this (as ALL conciliar Popes have), and teaches new doctrines or contradicts established truth, we are under no obligation to follow him into error. Archbishop Lefebvre had it right all along; recognize and resist.

The idea of a "Church back to the catacombs" is an interesting one.  It all sounds good to me, but I feel like people on here have argued previously that such a situation would still constitute the gates of hell prevailing because of something about the role of the "visible Church," meaning what is generally perceived as the Catholic Church.  Do you haven any thoughts on this vague, unclear thing that I am poorly articulating??
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RE: Hypothetically, would ordination of women mean the gates of hell had prevailed? - by Imperator Caesar Trump - 10-13-2019, 03:00 PM



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