Hypothetically, would ordination of women mean the gates of hell had prevailed?
(10-13-2019, 09:41 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: He would profess the matter of heresy if he positively taught and ordered this in contravention of the magisterium which has definitively settled the matter. The toleration of it would not constitute this. Nor would a mistake. To be a formal heretic, there needs to be not only error, but also knowledge that this is against what the Faith and pertinacity in this error established. The stubbornness is the form of the heresy.

A lot of the SV crowd get this wrong, and they think that "manifest formal heresy" means that some heresy has been manifested, or expressed. The crime of heresy for which even a Pope might lose his membership in the Church, thus his office, requires pertinacity. This is what is meant by "manifest" heresy.

Theologians are not settled on how a Pope could cease to be Pope by heresy, but clearly it cannot just be teaching or promoting something heretical, and even if we recognize it as clearly heretical, we don't get to declare a Pope deposed for this. Some authority has to intervene, even if it is only an imperfect authority.

Francis, however, does not work like this. He does not like definitions or clarity. He likes confusion and ambiguity and so when he wants to make changes stirs the pot and while everyone is going crazy over something he does not intend to implement, he pushes the line elsewhere, slowly advancing the changes he wants.

I stand to be corrected, but I think the whole women's ordination question is just a smokescreen to make non-celibate Latin clergy seem a tolerable outcome of the Synod. Either this or the purpose is to push some other non-Sacramental women's ministry to create a confusion between the Deacon and these women, and in doing this to eventually push for women deacons later.

But regardless of whether it is heretical or not for the Pope to do it, how can the Catholic Church continue to exist if the average person cannot be certain that they are truly receiving the sacraments or not?  Are we to expect every Catholic to inquire about the line of apostolic succession that led to the priest consecrating the gifts, every time, for every Mass and every confession?  I'm not that concerned about the Pope's intentions or whether he is a heretic or not.  I'm concerned about how the Church can continue to be what it claims to be if participation in the sacraments is not guaranteed.  The question of heresy and intention isn't even in my mind.

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RE: Hypothetically, would ordination of women mean the gates of hell had prevailed? - by Imperator Caesar Trump - 10-14-2019, 11:58 AM

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