Concerns about Catholicism
#2
Quote:Now, to the crux of the issue I am now facing has to do with this splintering of various traditionalist factions
Yeah that's a problem, though I see it getting better. The correct stance to take, in my opinion, is that the SSPX, FSSP, ICK, and all other traditional groups are all on the same team. Unite the clans as Michael Matt would say...

Quote:But the biggest issue I have now is the spurious position they have in the Church. There is no clear determination as to whether they are actually in the Church
It is a 100% certainty that they are "in" the Church. Rome will admit this much when pushed on the issue. Even if you grant the original excommunication of the bishops as valid, which I do not, those excommunications were rescinded by Pope Benedict. Hence, the bishops from the SSPX are IN the church. Even if you accept the validity of the suspension a-divinis of Paul VI, which I do not, the SSPX has nevertheless been granted ordinary jurisdiction to validly and licitly hear confessions by Rome; and to witness marriages with the permission of the local ordinary. So they do officially exercise official ministry IN the Church. Rome has further said that in a lay person attends a chapel of the SSPX for a love of the traditional mass, and not with the intent to "separate from Rome", there is no sin in that. Those facts ought to remove all concerns of conscience you may have. Further, any penalties they may face on Judgement Day due to their "canonical irregularity" would fall on their members, which are ONLY bishops and priests. Laity are not and never have been, and cannot be, members of the SSPX. Laity merely hear mass where they say mass. There is no sin in desiring to assist at mass and go to confession with an orthodox Catholic priest, and if one can only find that in the Society, then there you go!

Quote: in a state if disobedience (which is worrisome from a moral perspective)
That's exactly the case, but it is not worse from a moral perspective. They are in the Church, fully Catholic, but they disobey the authorities when those authorities try to compel them to embrace heretical positions. The entire history of the SSPX is a history of them facing injustice on the part of Rome. For example, Rome permitted the FSSP to exist on the basis of the May 5 Protocol, which did NOT require them to assent to all of Vatican 2, but merely to keep an open mind and to avoid polemics. But when it comes to the SSPX, Rome insists that they accept the whole thing without exception. Its absurd, honestly. No Catholic priest is morally bound to accept error, even if the order to do so comes from their superiors. If the Pope tells you to shoot your wife, you obviously have a right and duty to disobey him. If the Pope tells you to assent to heresy, you also have a right and duty to disobey. No one, not even the Pope, can compel you to sin against faith.

Quote:It all seems spurious to me for a Church which is meant to be the visible presence of Christ on earth.
A body infected with cancer doesn't cease to be a body, the Church infected with modernism doesn't cease to be the Church.
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Messages In This Thread
Concerns about Catholicism - by Augustinian - 10-16-2019, 10:08 AM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by 1Faith - 10-16-2019, 10:51 AM
Concerns about Catholicism - by Augustinian - 10-16-2019, 11:13 AM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by jack89 - 10-16-2019, 12:47 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by Bonaventure - 10-16-2019, 02:15 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by Augustinian - 10-16-2019, 05:38 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by Fionnchu - 10-17-2019, 12:00 AM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by MaryTN - 10-16-2019, 07:29 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by Augustinian - 10-16-2019, 09:49 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by Melkite - 10-17-2019, 09:11 AM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by Ioannes_L - 10-16-2019, 01:48 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by jack89 - 10-16-2019, 02:35 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by Bonaventure - 10-16-2019, 02:43 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by jack89 - 10-16-2019, 02:56 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by FultonFan - 10-16-2019, 03:32 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by LionHippo - 10-16-2019, 11:59 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by Augustinian - 10-17-2019, 12:10 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by 1Faith - 10-17-2019, 12:40 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by Some Guy - 10-17-2019, 01:36 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by Melkite - 10-17-2019, 02:13 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by jack89 - 10-17-2019, 02:28 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by 1Faith - 10-17-2019, 02:34 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by jovan66102 - 10-17-2019, 05:04 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by Augustinian - 10-17-2019, 05:05 PM
Concerns about Catholicism - by 1Faith - 10-17-2019, 08:49 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by LionHippo - 10-17-2019, 09:54 PM
Concerns about Catholicism - by 1Faith - 10-17-2019, 11:32 PM
RE: Concerns about Catholicism - by Some Guy - 10-18-2019, 12:18 PM



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