If They Strike Summorum Pontificum..
#11
Is this possible?
Yes.
Will this happen?
Who knows.

If Summorum Pontificum ends tomorrow, as some hope and dream, we would return to the pre-Motu days when only the SSPX, FSSP and other institutes offered the Tridentine Mass. That being said, I don't believe Pope Francis will terminate the Motu Proprio or go against the FSSP and other institutes.

As for the Pope, I pray for him and leave judgements to the competent authorities and to history itself.
Ite ad Ioseph
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#12
(10-22-2019, 05:13 PM)Ioannes_L Wrote: As for the Pope, I pray for him ...

I do too. Every day I pray that he will return to the Catholic Faith.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

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#13
Francis has been more generous to tradition and the Latin mass than JPII and Benedict combined. Remember his concessions to SSPX?
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#14
(10-22-2019, 07:15 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: Francis has been more generous to tradition and the Latin mass than JPII and Benedict combined. Remember his concessions to SSPX?
Part of me wonders if those were an effort to try and get the SSPX into a position like the ICK and FSSP so that it would be easier to regulate them. SSPX brings in a lot of money, so I'm sure the Vatican would love to tap into their parishioners.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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#15
(10-22-2019, 07:15 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: Francis has been more generous to tradition and the Latin mass than JPII and Benedict combined. Remember his concessions to SSPX?

And how many Traditional or 'Tradition leaning' Orders has he destroyed? FFI anyone? I don't recall either of them approving the destruction of an Order for 'praying too much' as he did to an Order of nuns in France.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
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#16
(10-22-2019, 07:27 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(10-22-2019, 07:15 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: Francis has been more generous to tradition and the Latin mass than JPII and Benedict combined. Remember his concessions to SSPX?

And how many Traditional or 'Tradition leaning' Orders has he destroyed? FFI anyone? I don't recall either of them approving the destruction of an Order for 'praying too much' as he did to an Order of nuns in France.
Not to mention the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary being deemed "not Catholic" by their bishop.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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#17
(10-22-2019, 03:59 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: Well said, 1Faith! I agree completely.

As to your OP, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Francis will never revoke SP. What he will do is to oppress and suppress orders and individual Bishops and Priests devoted to the TLM. When it reaches the point that the TLM is only celebrated at 2PM on every fifth Tuesday in a garage in Podunk, he'll say, 'What are you whingeing about? The TLM is still available!'

Well, if he really wants me to be an SSPX-only person and have my Diocesan parish shrink, who am I to judge? Wasn't that the line he towed? Who am I to judge?
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#18
I don't think Francis would just try to wipe away Tradition in one swipe.  That wouldn't work, and he knows it.  I suspect he'd just lead bishops away from it.  He'd make sure that seminary rectors and vocation directors admitted people who wanted novelty, or at least were blindly obedient and docile.  Let's face it, we already have a mostly-emasculated clergy.

I am sorry to say I have known a seminarian or two who couldn't even be considered a practicing Catholic.  Ironically, most of those came out of good dioceses, and had good bishops and vocation directors.  Now that I think about it, I really wonder how they even got in.  Someone must have taken the day off.  Unfortunately, with the state of the Church today, someone could easily think of a man as being really pious, when all he ever does is bother to go to Mass regularly.  He may not believe what the Church teaches, or want to live a very virtuous life, but he has some idea that the Faith should have at least a small role in his life.  Maybe he had a visit with his grandma recently, and he promised her he'd go to Mass sometime.  That's a good start, but someone who's going to be a priest needs to be further along than that.  People who continue to live that way aren't people who should be priests, but they could be good for pushing an agenda through, especially if they're allowed to be married.

Francis will want the people who have been enslaved by the culture.  They know premarital sex, lust, and all that are wrong, and may give some counsel against it in confession, but they still see no problem themselves going to Hooters with their seminarian brothers and posting about it on Twitter.  Those people won't get the Church into trouble, but they won't motivate sinners to repent either.  They'll be nice.  They'll earn respect in their communities, and they'll keep the status quo.  They'll go on local news to talk about canned food drives and blood drives, but they won't warn anyone about the dangers of hell or tell the local business leader in a same-sex marriage that they can't receive communion.  He will want people who will seem like a presence of good will, but he will know that in the end they are too stupid and weak to put up any substantial fight.  These priests will condemn same-sex marriage in one formal statement one year, but a few years later will issue a milquetoast non-statement when it is clear to him that he's lost that battle.

If Summorum Pontificum is suppressed and Francis tries to outlaw the Traditional Latin Mass, fine, some people will do it in secret and, God willing, I will find them.  Can obedience really require someone to exchange a greater good for a lesser good?  Somewhere, there will be a priest who will hold on to the Traditional Latin Mass no matter what.  I don't mind going to church in a cave.  I actually think going underground with my faith could be an exciting adventure.  All I know is that the Traditional Latin Mass helps me pray like nothing else ever could, and I will never, ever give it up.  When I go to the Traditional Latin Mass, I am actually able to meditate on what's going on at Mass, rather than be constantly interrupted by awkward pauses, communal recitations, or stupid songs. The Traditional Latin Mass reminds me that the Faith is worse persevering in.  The Novus Ordo doesn't remind me that at all.  I sin a lot, so I really need that reminder.
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#19
(10-22-2019, 02:56 PM)1Faith Wrote: I'm not qualified to make that determination either, none of us are, and I'm not judging his state of soul or his culpability. But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its probably a duck.

So you're saying the Pope... is made of wood?

Does he weigh the same as a Pachamama idol?
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#20
(10-22-2019, 07:26 PM)Augustinian Wrote:
(10-22-2019, 07:15 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: Francis has been more generous to tradition and the Latin mass than JPII and Benedict combined. Remember his concessions to SSPX?
Part of me wonders if those were an effort to try and get the SSPX into a position like the ICK and FSSP so that it would be easier to regulate them. SSPX brings in a lot of money, so I'm sure the Vatican would love to tap into their parishioners.

We have a winner...

Even if it's not about money, if they get too out of line, now the Pope can withdraw permission for confessions and marriages.
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