Nasty Trads....
#1
My husband and I attend a Traditional Latin Mass parish in Texas. And sadly, it is the kind of parish that seems to attract the Toxic Nasty Trads. Usually, (unfortunately) men who seem to have some kind of superiority complex and a need to exert their prowess. I know I sound like a feminist, but hear me out. 

My husband and I are in a Facebook group run by said parish. The group shares announcements, news, memes, etc. Somebody (a man) shared a post saying Halloween was evil and satanic and that anyone who participated in it would be possessed by Satan. He further stated that he was locking himself, his wife, and his kids in their home all day long to pray and hide from Satan prowling around. My husband and I tried to engage in some friendly debate with him, but he ended up blocking me and telling my husband that I was an evil, toxic woman who controlled my husband too much. He also said these things about me publicly in the group where everyone could see. 

Another incident that comes to mind is when my husband and I were sitting in our pew during Mass, minding our own business, and a man (who may have been the same guy, who knows?) leaned over and growled in my ear "Ma'am, will you MOVE your PURSE?!" because apparently my purse was bothering him and rather than just move it a few inches himself, he had to make a big deal about telling me to do something. My husband noticed and had to refrain from telling the guy off in Mass. Also note, my husband is about as anti-feminist as a man could be (he and DivineSilence would get along splendidly!) and even he said that the guy was totally out of line. 

Am I the only one who experiences these things? What is it about Traditional Catholicism that seems to make people this way?


St. Mary of Egypt, Ora Pro Nobis!







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#2
(11-07-2019, 12:21 PM)SacraCor714 Wrote: My husband and I attend a Traditional Latin Mass parish in Texas. And sadly, it is the kind of parish that seems to attract the Toxic Nasty Trads. Usually, (unfortunately) men who seem to have some kind of superiority complex and a need to exert their prowess. I know I sound like a feminist, but hear me out. 

My husband and I are in a Facebook group run by said parish. The group shares announcements, news, memes, etc. Somebody (a man) shared a post saying Halloween was evil and satanic and that anyone who participated in it would be possessed by Satan. He further stated that he was locking himself, his wife, and his kids in their home all day long to pray and hide from Satan prowling around. My husband and I tried to engage in some friendly debate with him, but he ended up blocking me and sending my husband a PM saying that I was an evil, toxic woman who controlled my husband too much. He also said the same things about me publicly in the group where everyone could see. 

Another incident that comes to mind is when my husband and I were sitting in our pew during Mass, minding our own business, and a man (who may have been the same guy, who knows?) leaned over and growled in my ear "Ma'am, will you MOVE your PURSE?!" because apparently my purse was bothering him and rather than just move it a few inches himself, he had to make a big deal about telling me to do something. My husband noticed and had to refrain from telling the guy off in Mass. Also note, my husband is about as anti-feminist as a man could be (he and DivineSilence would get along splendidly!) and even he said that the guy was totally out of line. 

Am I the only one who experiences these things? What is it about Traditional Catholicism that seems to make people this way?

                                          I'm a Traditional Catholic, and I make no secret of the fact that every year, I hand out home printed Bible tracks (Douay version of course) to children, with candy.
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#3
I think it's natural that a return to external piety is going to draw in the Pharisees. But it isn't the traditionalist movement that causes it, it's that there are always going to be those who are religiously inclined, but are ice cold in their soul and very proud. Heap coals of charity on their head and maybe speak with the parish priest.
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#4
Most trads are nothing like that guy, in my experience. But some are, and I think it has to do with religious addiction -- using religion as an ideological drug in reaction to the pain of modern life. Throw in righteous anger at feminism that morphs, illogically, into anger at women in general, and you get your purse-hating, family-terrorizing paranoid pew guy who'll go on about Christ and the Church while knowing nothing about charity.

I feel really sorry for his family, and I bet his kids won't remain Catholic after the age of 16 or so. They'll likely turn into the most rabid anti-Catholic types. And he'll go on thinking he's "RIGHT,  BY GOD!!!" 'til he gets thrown into Hell along with the Christ-hating pagans.
T h e   D u d e t t e   A b i d e s
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#5
How we deal with others and regulate our emotions and external expressions are all subjected by virtue (or vice). The man who temperamentally tends to be an a-hole will need to focus on smoothing out his rough edges. The man who is a wimp will need to learn to toughen up. Both are the work of virtue. Even striking the proper balance of how to talk to others with truth but also charity takes much prudence. 

The fact of the matter is that sinful nature is something to be overcome with a really vigorous effort, and some people get it worse off than others, and they take these vicious qualities from their temperament and upbringing to any ideology or belief they happen to cling to. That is why you see the same range of poor behavior across all beliefs. They take their own sinful vices and find ways to merge their vices and their beliefs and find self justification in that. This is common fallen nature. The Pharisaical tendency happens to be only one instance of that phenomenon.

So, like the other thread about the NCR article on the toxic culture of trads, the issue isn't trads or some vague generalization about a diverse group of people scattered across the globe, of whom we really can't in any fair, charitable, or meaningful way make useful generalizations (and we do it only as a matter of useful shorthand). The issue is fallen nature. Like Vox said, it seems very likely that the children of that family you ran into are going to suffer a lot because of the vices of their parents, and perhaps even losing the faith in disgust and rebellion against values that their parents don't even embody and perhaps hypocritically parade in a show of virtue signaling. It's something to feel pity about and to pray for. It's like seeing someone who seems to be doing everything right, believes they are right, and yet something is clearly wrong. Maybe like the parable of the Pharisee and the publican who pray in the temple. 

So I think the useful thing to remember is that the wrong question to ask is "What is it about Traditional Catholicism that...?" The proper understanding and living of the Faith should lead to a perfectly balanced, virtuous, and strong individual, and the Traditional practice of that faith, when followed according to its true principles as laid out by Saints, doctors, theologians, the Magisterium, will lead to it. St. John of the Cross said one of the biggest hurdles a spiritual beginner has is overcoming his own opinions and preconceptions about any number of things, especially God. This shows you why when you meet someone who seems to be genuinely holy, they don't come off as strongly opinionated but as having strong convictions and a sense of deep rootedness. If they don't put up with something, it is a matter of fact and not a matter of protest. I think most of us can sense this difference when we see it.

To answer your first question, no, you're not the only one who experiences those sorts of things. I can share any number of ridiculous and horrifying things I've seen among people who happen to be "traditional Catholics." Some of those things have disturbed me very deeply. The issue is that some people are a lot dumber and more vicious than others, not whether they're Catholic or not. But that is life... Our work is to live virtuously as best as we can in our state of life and in doing so model that ideal for others.
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#6
Quote:Piscis:  This shows you why when you meet someone who seems to be genuinely holy, they don't come off as strongly opinionated but as having strong convictions and a sense of deep rootedness. If they don't put up with something, it is a matter of fact and not a matter of protest.

Love this!   Heart
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#7
(11-07-2019, 12:21 PM)SacraCor714 Wrote: My husband and I attend a Traditional Latin Mass parish in Texas. And sadly, it is the kind of parish that seems to attract the Toxic Nasty Trads. Usually, (unfortunately) men who seem to have some kind of superiority complex and a need to exert their prowess. I know I sound like a feminist, but hear me out. 

My husband and I are in a Facebook group run by said parish. The group shares announcements, news, memes, etc. Somebody (a man) shared a post saying Halloween was evil and satanic and that anyone who participated in it would be possessed by Satan. He further stated that he was locking himself, his wife, and his kids in their home all day long to pray and hide from Satan prowling around. My husband and I tried to engage in some friendly debate with him, but he ended up blocking me and sending my husband a PM saying that I was an evil, toxic woman who controlled my husband too much. He also said the same things about me publicly in the group where everyone could see. 

Another incident that comes to mind is when my husband and I were sitting in our pew during Mass, minding our own business, and a man (who may have been the same guy, who knows?) leaned over and growled in my ear "Ma'am, will you MOVE your PURSE?!" because apparently my purse was bothering him and rather than just move it a few inches himself, he had to make a big deal about telling me to do something. My husband noticed and had to refrain from telling the guy off in Mass. Also note, my husband is about as anti-feminist as a man could be (he and DivineSilence would get along splendidly!) and even he said that the guy was totally out of line. 

Am I the only one who experiences these things? What is it about Traditional Catholicism that seems to make people this way?

I’ve mentioned this before. Certain mental health conditions have as a characteristic a fixation with ritual. People with these conditions are not always very socially adept. The Traditional Latin Mass, with its external beauty, it’s ritual and consistency, and all the repetition can be very comforting to someone with a condition like this. They also likely greatly appreciate that there isn’t going to be a hug fest at the nonexistent sign of peace.  I’ve experienced a few of these people. They’re not real pleasant to be around, and they might not ever admit that they have a problem, but you can usually tell that they do if you can stand to be around them long enough to figure it out. Just pray for them, and keep your distance.
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#8
(11-07-2019, 01:14 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote: Most trads are nothing like that guy, in my experience. But some are, and I think it has to do with religious addiction -- using religion as an ideological drug in reaction to the pain of modern life. Throw in righteous anger at feminism that morphs, illogically, into anger at women in general, and you get your purse-hating, family-terrorizing paranoid pew guy who'll go on about Christ and the Church while knowing nothing about charity.

I feel really sorry for his family, and I bet his kids won't remain Catholic after the age of 16 or so. They'll likely turn into the most rabid anti-Catholic types. And he'll go on thinking he's "RIGHT,  BY GOD!!!" 'til he gets thrown into Hell along with the Christ-hating pagans.

One word : Insecurity.

Many men today are highly insecure, and so reply in one of two ways : (1) beating/belittling women and treating them like trash/servants, or (2) abandoning their leadership role and pushing that heavy burden unjustly on women thus letting women run them over.

The former do this because it compensates for their insecurity by dictatorial rule. The latter do that because it appeals to their laziness and it's much easier to be led than to lead.

The guy SacraCor descrives is from camp number one.

Her husband sounds like he's pretty secure and thus why she can see this monster for what he is so easily.
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#9
(11-07-2019, 12:41 PM)Some Guy Wrote: I think it's natural that a return to external piety is going to draw in the Pharisees. But it isn't the traditionalist movement that causes it, it's that there are always going to be those who are religiously inclined, but are ice cold in their soul and very proud. Heap coals of charity on their head and maybe speak with the parish priest.

Nailed it.
I have resigned myself to the reality that I shall have no peace or joy should I continue to exist for eternity.  The question of deism or Christianity no longer matters.  I hope that Christianity is a farce, and that when I die, my consciousness will cease to exist.  In the meantime, I ask the Theotokos to be at my side at my judgement and ask her to intercede to, as I beg, Christ to have mercy on me and to allow me to cease to exist when I die.
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#10
Everyone at church seems really nice to me - in fact, far nicer and more genuine than a typical NO parish by an order of magnitude.  And before someone comments that because I don't know any toxic trads this means that *I* am the toxic trad: Keep in mind that can't possibly be true because I am far too attractive/charismatic for anyone to ever think that of me.

I can see how the TLM could attract certain personality disorders, for sure.  Specifically, this would be Cluster C personality types.  I'll take this any day over what I associate with a diocesan parish and liberal Protestants - Cluster B freaks.  A parish council, almost by definition, is a support group for borderliners.
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