St Faustina Warns us of Bergoglio's Heresies and Apostasy.
#31
(11-29-2019, 04:58 PM)maso Wrote:
(11-26-2019, 10:20 PM)Fionnchu Wrote:
(11-26-2019, 10:18 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: I'd point out that a later edition (I think the 1912) of the same book removed it. So again, well before any "radical traditionalist" motive existed it also just as easily "disappeared" and probably due to the questionable pedigree.

Thanks for this clarification. Public domain and Google add up to increase the amount of, well, unsubstantiated sources, don't they?

The first version of the prophecy of Saint Francis appeared in a 17th century's book written in latin by a franciscan monk named Lucas Wadding "B.P. Francisci Assisiatis Opuscula" per Fr.Lucam Waddingum  MDCXXIII

The text of the prophecy begins on page 480 entitled "Prophetia XIV Magnum in Ecclesia schisma & tribulationem futuram"

I hope this may help

Here's a translation from a pdf on Academia.edu by a Franciscan Friar of the Renewal, so I figure it's trustworthy.
On the paternity of a medieval report of Francis of Assisi foretelling a non-canonically elected pope

https://www.academia.edu/37578753/On_the...ected_pope

Fr. Solanus M. Benfatti, CFR  "A friend has asked me to comment on the paternity of a text that attributes to Francis of Assisi (d. 1226) a prophecy of, among other things, “someone not-canonically elected and infected with heretical depravity … having taken up the papacy.”

 The entire text – according to the form in which I have been asked comment – reads:

A short time before the holy Father’s death, he called together his Children and warned them of the coming troubles, saying: “Act bravely, my Brethren; take courage, and trust in the Lord. The time is fast approaching in  which there will be great trials and afflictions; perplexities and dissensions, both spiritual and temporal, will abound; the charity of many will grow cold, and the malice of the wicked will increase. The devils will have unusual power, the immaculate purity of our Order, and of others, will be so much obscured that there will be  very few Christians who will obey the true Sovereign Pontiff and the Roman Church with loyal hearts and perfect charity. At the time of this tribulation a man, not canonically  elected, will be raised to the Pontificate, who, by his cunning, will endeavour to draw many into error and death. Then scandals will be multiplied, our Order will be divided, and many others will be entirely destroyed, because they will consent to error instead of opposing it. There will be such diversity of opinions and schisms among the people, the religious and the clergy, that, except those days were shortened, according to the words of the Gospel, even the elect would be led into error, were they not specially guided, amid such great confusion, by the immense mercy of God. Then our Rule and manner of life will be violently opposed by some, and terrible trials will come upon us. Those who are found faithful will receive the crown of life; but woe to those who, trusting solely in their Order, shall fall into tepidity, for they will not be able to support the temptations permitted for the proving of the elect. Those who preserve their fervour and adhere to virtue with love and zeal for the truth, will suffer injuries and persecutions as rebels and schismatics; for their persecutors, urged on by the evil spirits, will say they are rendering a great service to God by destroying such pestilent men from the face of the earth. But the Lord will be the refuge of the afflicted, and will save all  who trust in Him. And in order to be like their Head, these, the elect, will act with confidence, and by their death  will purchase for themselves eternal life; choosing to obey God rather than man, they will fear nothing, and they  will prefer to perish rather than consent to falsehood and perfidy. Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it under foot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor, but a destroyer.”

Commentary follows in the pdf you can check from the URL link above.
The deeds you do may be the only sermon some people may hear today (Francis of Assisi); Win an argument, lose a soul (Fulton Sheen)
[-] The following 2 users Like Fionnchu's post:
  • josh987654321, MagisterMusicae
Reply
#32
(11-29-2019, 04:58 PM)maso Wrote: The first version of the prophecy of Saint Francis appeared in a 17th century's book written in latin by a franciscan monk named Lucas Wadding "B.P. Francisci Assisiatis Opuscula" per Fr.Lucam Waddingum  MDCXXIII

St Francis, died 3 October 1226. Luke Wadding, born 16 October 1588. Bit of a gap, eh?
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
  “Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'


Reply
#33
ThIs is the first KNOWN version of this prophecy.
Possibly are there older ones in now lost or destroyed  manuscripits?
Anyways this 17th cent. book gives better credence to the Saint Francis prophecy.
[-] The following 1 user Likes maso's post:
  • josh987654321
Reply
#34
(11-30-2019, 12:17 AM)maso Wrote: ThIs is the first KNOWN version of this prophecy.
Possibly are there older ones in now lost or destroyed  manuscripits?
Anyways this 17th cent. book gives better credence to the Saint Francis prophecy.

Only if one accepts the fallacy that an older source is necessarily better.

If one is trying to show when it was written or accepted, this is a good argument. If one is trying to show authenticity, then it doesn't help except circumstantially. One still needs make the connection to St Francis. Mere timing does not make that any more than finding a first century copy of the Protoevangelium of James would make it part of Scriptural Canon.

The academia.edu source and commentary by a Franciscan who has studied the works of St Francis and demonstrated the high likelihood of this prophecy being spurious is the kind of direct proof that goes to the heart of the matter, and, in that case is highly against its authenticity.
[-] The following 2 users Like MagisterMusicae's post:
  • Fionnchu, jovan66102
Reply
#35
(11-29-2019, 09:42 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: St Francis, died 3 October 1226. Luke Wadding, born 16 October 1588. Bit of a gap, eh?

There is, but we have origins now to at least the 17th century. A time when what is occurring today could not have possibly been foreseen, and like I said, not only that it lines up so well with what is happening today but that it was attributed to St Francis of Assisi of all the saints is a ridiculously scary coincidence.

(11-30-2019, 03:55 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: One still needs make the connection to St Francis.

Yup, but someone in the 17th century certainly did and what is the likelihood that they made it up out of thin air in light of the fact that what is occurring today could not have possibly been foreseen at such a time and that they attributed it to St Francis of Assisi of all the saints? The odds are ridiculous IMO.

God Bless You
Jesus to St Faustina:

"For you I descended from heaven to earth; for you I allowed myself to be nailed to the cross; for you I let my Sacred Heart be pierced with a lance, thus opening wide the source of mercy for you. Come, then, with trust to draw graces from this fountain. I never reject a contrite heart." (Diary, 1485)

"Remember My Passion, and if you do not believe My words, at least believe My wounds." (Diary, 379)

"It is in My Passion that you must seek light and strength." (Diary, 654)
[-] The following 1 user Likes josh987654321's post:
  • boredoftheworld
Reply
#36
(11-30-2019, 09:07 AM)josh987654321 Wrote: Yup, but someone in the 17th century certainly did and what is the likelihood that they made it up out of thin air in light of the fact that what is occurring today could not have possibly been foreseen at such a time and that they attributed it to St Francis of Assisi of all the saints? The odds are ridiculous IMO.

You apparently didn't read the link provided. It's quite clear from that that this "prophecy" is not authentic.

So, according to a Franciscan scholar of St Francis, odds are its fake, but according to you it would be ridiculous to think it fake because it fits your theory.

I'll go with the expert on this one.
[-] The following 1 user Likes MagisterMusicae's post:
  • Fionnchu
Reply
#37
(11-30-2019, 12:51 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(11-30-2019, 09:07 AM)josh987654321 Wrote: Yup, but someone in the 17th century certainly did and what is the likelihood that they made it up out of thin air in light of the fact that what is occurring today could not have possibly been foreseen at such a time and that they attributed it to St Francis of Assisi of all the saints? The odds are ridiculous IMO.

You apparently didn't read the link provided. It's quite clear from that that this "prophecy" is not authentic.

So, according to a Franciscan scholar of St Francis, odds are its fake, but according to you it would be ridiculous to think it fake because it fits your theory.

I'll go with the expert on this one.

I don't think that's the point at all. WHOEVER said it first got it right. So someone got the attribution wrong along the way, intentionally or not. Big deal. The point for me is the people who say "this isn't happening" and get lost in the details and minutiae.
Reply
#38
(11-30-2019, 02:22 PM)boredoftheworld Wrote:
(11-30-2019, 12:51 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(11-30-2019, 09:07 AM)josh987654321 Wrote: Yup, but someone in the 17th century certainly did and what is the likelihood that they made it up out of thin air in light of the fact that what is occurring today could not have possibly been foreseen at such a time and that they attributed it to St Francis of Assisi of all the saints? The odds are ridiculous IMO.

You apparently didn't read the link provided. It's quite clear from that that this "prophecy" is not authentic.

So, according to a Franciscan scholar of St Francis, odds are its fake, but according to you it would be ridiculous to think it fake because it fits your theory.

I'll go with the expert on this one.

I don't think that's the point at all. WHOEVER said it first got it right. So someone got the attribution wrong along the way, intentionally or not. Big deal. The point for me is the people who say "this isn't happening" and get lost in the details and minutiae.
I cannot imagine that Br Lucas Wadding could have invented this prophecy out of thin air. Certainly it already existed in older documents, printed or manuscript books or letters that he copied.
I am a bit baffled by this prophecy for some reasons:
- Which would be the aims of writing this kind of fake prophecy by the beginning of the 17th century?
- How could a forger describe so accurately some of aspects of the Church we are undergoing nowadays ?
- The writer speaks of a "non canonically elected pope". He doesn't claim he is a false pope: That is the exact situation of Francis.
- Saint Francis and our Holy Father have the same name. Odd coincidence.
[-] The following 1 user Likes maso's post:
  • josh987654321
Reply
#39
(11-30-2019, 05:15 PM)maso Wrote:
(11-30-2019, 02:22 PM)boredoftheworld Wrote:
(11-30-2019, 12:51 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(11-30-2019, 09:07 AM)josh987654321 Wrote: Yup, but someone in the 17th century certainly did and what is the likelihood that they made it up out of thin air in light of the fact that what is occurring today could not have possibly been foreseen at such a time and that they attributed it to St Francis of Assisi of all the saints? The odds are ridiculous IMO.

You apparently didn't read the link provided. It's quite clear from that that this "prophecy" is not authentic.

So, according to a Franciscan scholar of St Francis, odds are its fake, but according to you it would be ridiculous to think it fake because it fits your theory.

I'll go with the expert on this one.

I don't think that's the point at all. WHOEVER said it first got it right. So someone got the attribution wrong along the way, intentionally or not. Big deal. The point for me is the people who say "this isn't happening" and get lost in the details and minutiae.
I cannot imagine that Br Lucas Wadding could have invented this prophecy out of thin air. Certainly it already existed in older documents, printed or manuscript books or letters that he copied.
I am a bit baffled by this prophecy for some reasons:
- Which would be the aims of writing this kind of fake prophecy by the beginning of the 17th century?
- How could a forger describe so accurately some of aspects of the Church we are undergoing nowadays ?
- The writer speaks of a "non canonically elected pope". He doesn't claim he is a false pope: That is the exact situation of Francis.
- Saint Francis and our Holy Father have the same name. Odd coincidence.

It is all explained here: 
https://www.academia.edu/37578753/On_the...ected_pope
[-] The following 1 user Likes solitude's post:
  • MagisterMusicae
Reply
#40
(11-30-2019, 05:15 PM)maso Wrote: I cannot imagine that Br Lucas Wadding could have invented this prophecy out of thin air.

No one claimed he did.

(11-30-2019, 05:15 PM)maso Wrote: Certainly it already existed in older documents, printed or manuscript books or letters that he copied.


None of which establish its link to St Francis. Coupled with the stylistic problem, the history and other matters pointed out in the article, this certainly does not establish thus "prophecy" as spoken by St Francis. Add to this that the spirituals (Fratticelli) were proven liars and heretics, those documents could be from them and false just as easily. Thus their provenance is of import.

(11-30-2019, 05:15 PM)maso Wrote: - Which would be the aims of writing this kind of fake prophecy by the beginning of the 17th century?


If the linked article is correct the Fratticelli would have been trying to vilify the Popes who had condemned them and assert their justification by claiming St Francis had predicted their need to rebel.

That would put the date of the forgery much earlier, which is perhaps why people were not so scrupulous about including it.

(11-30-2019, 05:15 PM)maso Wrote: - How could a forger describe so accurately some of aspects of the Church we are undergoing nowadays ?


The assumed premise needs proving. Who says that the "prophet" is trying to describe today at all? This is the same assumed premise that New Age folks use with Nostradamus or cold reading, psychics, mediums, etc. Confirmation bias and pattern recognition. We will often make a description fit even when it is vague or contradictory, because we desire the conclusion and never evaluate the reality. It is the same seeing of evidence where there is none, just as in a static pattern or the clouds people see objects which do not really exist.

That this "prophecy" could describe the sedevacantist notion of the Siri theory, the fake Paul VI theory, Benevacantism or any other number of possible force fits if we ignore certain aspects and cling to others shows how it does not actually describe today any more than 1958, or 1976, or any other period.

(11-30-2019, 05:15 PM)maso Wrote: - The writer speaks of a "non canonically elected pope". He doesn't claim he is a false pope: That is the exact situation of Francis.


Nope. Francis was canonically elected. Or at least that's my claim. It's at least as valid a claim as yours. Without the ability to judge the election, which does not belong to me or you, we can only assume that universal acceptance means a canonical election.

Also since that discussion is restricted to the appropriate thread, I'd point out that in this thread the assumption must be that Francis was canonically elected.

(11-30-2019, 05:15 PM)maso Wrote: - Saint Francis and our Holy Father have the same name. Odd coincidence.

St Joseph and Stalin have the same name.

Again, false pattern recognition and confirmation bias.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
[-] The following 2 users Like MagisterMusicae's post:
  • Fionnchu, jovan66102
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)