Cardinal Müller warns ‘hundreds of thousands’ will leave Church over Pachamamas
#11
I can safely say that if the Antichrist himself is enthroned in the Vatican tomorrow, I still will not leave the Catholic faith. The Church is far more than just some buildings and clergymen, it's the only means of salvation.

Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary, save us
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

"But thanks be to God through our Lord Jesus Christ, who has transported us out of darkness into his marvelous light when through these lights exteriorly given we are disposed to reenter the mirror of our mind in which divine realities shine forth."
-St. Bonaventure, Itinerarium
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#12
(11-27-2019, 09:30 PM)Augustinian Wrote: I can safely say that if the Antichrist himself is enthroned in the Vatican tomorrow, I still will not leave the Catholic faith. The Church is far more than just some buildings and clergymen, it's the only means of salvation.

Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary, save us

AMEN! I'm not going anywhere!
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
  “Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'


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#13
OK seriously, this has to stop. In reverse order:

1. a. It's not either/or as regards decrying evil masquerading as good. "Shut up and tend to your spiritual development" (which isn't a quote it's a paraphrase) is a major enabling factor in the sexual abuse scandals. It seems to me that one is useless without the other. Of course we must pray, read, pray more, excise evil from ourselves and of course we must fight error, perversity and all evil. 

1. b. The pachamama stuff absolutely matters to our practice of the faith because all the way to the top we're being told it's compatible with authentic Catholicism. As far as I can tell that fundamentally changes what is or is not authentic Catholicism. If "they" are even partially correct "we" are so far out in left field we're playing a different game.

2. Liberius? Uh, not sure how he's a good comparison. Honorius as well who was condemned for silence rather than teaching error. Likewise John XXII who preached an error that was only defined by a successor (the immediacy of the Beatific Vision). We're not living under Liberius, Honorius or John XXII. The current situation is different not only in degree but in kind, it's as if Arius was Bishop of Rome. Figure out how that works.

3. As regards Rome being a city in Italy. I don't think you're a moron, please don't feel free to treat me like one. Writing about "Heresy and Apostasy in Rome" isn't worthy of comment if it concerns civil government or officials. Furthermore pointing out heresy and apostasy in any other see on the planet doesn't strike at the heart of the Church. Washington DC, London, Sacramento, Charleston, New York, all of those local churches can fall into heresy, all can be apostate. Rome though cannot. We can talk about "Heresy and Apostasy in Los Angeles" only because Rome is our sure guide. Which leads to:

3. b. Everything we've got depends on the Faithfulness of the Roman Church, particularly in the person of the Roman Pontiff. We can't even appeal to Sacred Scripture without submitting to the authority of the Bishop of Rome to teach what Sacred Scripture even is. If we can't depend on the Pope to teach us the truth we can't depend on anything and we certainly can't appeal to historical sources because that is an appeal to the authority of the Pope. If this one is wrong now what makes the last two hundred right? Nothing.

This isn't about impeccability of the Sovereign Pontiff, which isn't a thing. It's not about private theological opinions held prior to his election. It's not about what he's preaching in his diocese. It's not about what he's not saying. The ordinary and universal Magisterium is currently a shambles if Jorge Bergoglio has any part in it at all. Spare me the nitpicking on Amoris Laetitia and Laudato Si, we're not gnostics. He clearly meant it all and he clearly meant it to be obeyed because he's imposing all of his crazy ideas on the Church. And the only way I can sleep at night and use the words "crazy ideas" in conjunction with Bergoglio is I can't fathom a reality in which he's actually what he's pretending to be. I've written before and I'll type it again: He can't be Vicar of Christ and vicar of pachamama.
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#14
(11-27-2019, 10:43 PM)boredoftheworld Wrote: OK seriously, this has to stop. In reverse order:

1. a. It's not either/or as regards decrying evil masquerading as good. "Shut up and tend to your spiritual development" (which isn't a quote it's a paraphrase) is a major enabling factor in the sexual abuse scandals. It seems to me that one is useless without the other. Of course we must pray, read, pray more, excise evil from ourselves and of course we must fight error, perversity and all evil. 

1. b. The pachamama stuff absolutely matters to our practice of the faith because all the way to the top we're being told it's compatible with authentic Catholicism. As far as I can tell that fundamentally changes what is or is not authentic Catholicism. If "they" are even partially correct "we" are so far out in left field we're playing a different game.

2. Liberius? Uh, not sure how he's a good comparison. Honorius as well who was condemned for silence rather than teaching error. Likewise John XXII who preached an error that was only defined by a successor (the immediacy of the Beatific Vision). We're not living under Liberius, Honorius or John XXII. The current situation is different not only in degree but in kind, it's as if Arius was Bishop of Rome. Figure out how that works.

3. As regards Rome being a city in Italy. I don't think you're a moron, please don't feel free to treat me like one. Writing about "Heresy and Apostasy in Rome" isn't worthy of comment if it concerns civil government or officials. Furthermore pointing out heresy and apostasy in any other see on the planet doesn't strike at the heart of the Church. Washington DC, London, Sacramento, Charleston, New York, all of those local churches can fall into heresy, all can be apostate. Rome though cannot. We can talk about "Heresy and Apostasy in Los Angeles" only because Rome is our sure guide. Which leads to:

3. b. Everything we've got depends on the Faithfulness of the Roman Church, particularly in the person of the Roman Pontiff. We can't even appeal to Sacred Scripture without submitting to the authority of the Bishop of Rome to teach what Sacred Scripture even is. If we can't depend on the Pope to teach us the truth we can't depend on anything and we certainly can't appeal to historical sources because that is an appeal to the authority of the Pope. If this one is wrong now what makes the last two hundred right? Nothing.

This isn't about impeccability of the Sovereign Pontiff, which isn't a thing. It's not about private theological opinions held prior to his election. It's not about what he's preaching in his diocese. It's not about what he's not saying. The ordinary and universal Magisterium is currently a shambles if Jorge Bergoglio has any part in it at all. Spare me the nitpicking on Amoris Laetitia and Laudato Si, we're not gnostics. He clearly meant it all and he clearly meant it to be obeyed because he's imposing all of his crazy ideas on the Church. And the only way I can sleep at night and use the words "crazy ideas" in conjunction with Bergoglio is I can't fathom a reality in which he's actually what he's pretending to be. I've written before and I'll type it again: He can't be Vicar of Christ and vicar of pachamama.

How is Liberius not an apt comparison? Maybe if you buy the most propagandized Church approved version of events, but stripping away all the spin, you have a pope who condemned and excommunicated a bishop and his flock for believing Jesus was God, and signing a heterodox statement of faith in support of Jesus not being God. All those histories can paint it as "being forced" but in reality there's no way to prove that kind of spin. The facts remain, and they are arguably worse than what Francis is doing
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#15
(11-27-2019, 10:43 PM)boredoftheworld Wrote: OK seriously, this has to stop. In reverse order:

1. a. It's not either/or as regards decrying evil masquerading as good. "Shut up and tend to your spiritual development" (which isn't a quote it's a paraphrase) is a major enabling factor in the sexual abuse scandals. It seems to me that one is useless without the other. Of course we must pray, read, pray more, excise evil from ourselves and of course we must fight error, perversity and all evil. 

1. b. The pachamama stuff absolutely matters to our practice of the faith because all the way to the top we're being told it's compatible with authentic Catholicism. As far as I can tell that fundamentally changes what is or is not authentic Catholicism. If "they" are even partially correct "we" are so far out in left field we're playing a different game.

2. Liberius? Uh, not sure how he's a good comparison. Honorius as well who was condemned for silence rather than teaching error. Likewise John XXII who preached an error that was only defined by a successor (the immediacy of the Beatific Vision). We're not living under Liberius, Honorius or John XXII. The current situation is different not only in degree but in kind, it's as if Arius was Bishop of Rome. Figure out how that works.

3. As regards Rome being a city in Italy. I don't think you're a moron, please don't feel free to treat me like one. Writing about "Heresy and Apostasy in Rome" isn't worthy of comment if it concerns civil government or officials. Furthermore pointing out heresy and apostasy in any other see on the planet doesn't strike at the heart of the Church. Washington DC, London, Sacramento, Charleston, New York, all of those local churches can fall into heresy, all can be apostate. Rome though cannot. We can talk about "Heresy and Apostasy in Los Angeles" only because Rome is our sure guide. Which leads to:

3. b. Everything we've got depends on the Faithfulness of the Roman Church, particularly in the person of the Roman Pontiff. We can't even appeal to Sacred Scripture without submitting to the authority of the Bishop of Rome to teach what Sacred Scripture even is. If we can't depend on the Pope to teach us the truth we can't depend on anything and we certainly can't appeal to historical sources because that is an appeal to the authority of the Pope. If this one is wrong now what makes the last two hundred right? Nothing.

This isn't about impeccability of the Sovereign Pontiff, which isn't a thing. It's not about private theological opinions held prior to his election. It's not about what he's preaching in his diocese. It's not about what he's not saying. The ordinary and universal Magisterium is currently a shambles if Jorge Bergoglio has any part in it at all. Spare me the nitpicking on Amoris Laetitia and Laudato Si, we're not gnostics. He clearly meant it all and he clearly meant it to be obeyed because he's imposing all of his crazy ideas on the Church. And the only way I can sleep at night and use the words "crazy ideas" in conjunction with Bergoglio is I can't fathom a reality in which he's actually what he's pretending to be. I've written before and I'll type it again: He can't be Vicar of Christ and vicar of pachamama.

So what do you propose we do?
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#16
(11-27-2019, 10:43 PM)boredoftheworld Wrote: .

(11-28-2019, 08:38 AM)FultonFan Wrote: So what do you propose we do?

'Jesus, I Trust In You'

Remain faithful, speak up and resist the heresies coming from the Vatican and Bergoglio. When all the dust finally settles, it will either be revealed that Bergoglio was invalidly elected and thus all his heresies become null and void, or they'll do a stock take of all his heresies and determine whether or not the gates of hell have prevailed, what remains and what is lost so to speak.

Mark 4:37-40

God Bless You
Jesus to St Faustina:

"For you I descended from heaven to earth; for you I allowed myself to be nailed to the cross; for you I let my Sacred Heart be pierced with a lance, thus opening wide the source of mercy for you. Come, then, with trust to draw graces from this fountain. I never reject a contrite heart." (Diary, 1485)

"Remember My Passion, and if you do not believe My words, at least believe My wounds." (Diary, 379)

"It is in My Passion that you must seek light and strength." (Diary, 654)
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#17
Quote:True though, if he didn't respond to the Dubia he's certainly not responding to this if it even reaches him lol,


Well, it at least reached his toadies, since I made sure to tweet it to @pontifex!

Quote:I would expand on my thoughts here but I get in trouble for bringing it up outside of Benevcantism threads.

Thank you!
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
  “Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'


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#18
question from a protestant. If Rome uses idols this does not refute Catholicism since it is not dogma correct? but how could god allow rome who is to lead go so far astray?
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#19
(12-01-2019, 08:21 AM)Tolkien1096 Wrote: question from a protestant. If Rome uses idols this does not refute Catholicism since it is not dogma correct? but how could god allow rome who is to lead go so far astray?

Very likely because we’re being punished for our infidelity to God and have been indifferent to His abundant graces. The Light came into the world, and, to this day, the darkness doesn’t comprehend. We’ve brought it on ourselves by our unholy lives. 

It’s nothing new. 

Beginning of the Book of the Prophet Isaias 1:1-6

The vision of Isaias the son of Amos I which he saw concerning Juda and Jerusalem in the days of Ozias, Joathan, Achaz, and Ezechias, kings of Juda. Hear, O ye heavens, and give ear, O earth, for the Lord hath spoken. I have brought up children, and exalted them: but they have despised me. The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master’s crib: but Israel hath not known me, and my people hath not understood. Woe to the sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a wicked seed, ungracious children: they have forsaken the Lord, they have blasphemed the Holy One of Israel, they are gone away backwards. For what shall I strike you any more, you that increase transgression? The whole head is sick, and the whole heart is sad. From the sole of the foot unto the top of the head, there is no soundness therein: wounds and bruises and swelling sores: they are not bound up, nor dressed, nor fomented with oil.
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#20
(12-01-2019, 08:21 AM)Tolkien1096 Wrote: question from a protestant. If Rome uses idols this does not refute Catholicism since it is not dogma correct?


Correct.

(12-01-2019, 08:21 AM)Tolkien1096 Wrote: but how could god allow rome who is to lead go so far astray?

Good question, like FultonFan said, if the Israelites were God's chosen people, how could He allow them to go so far astray? I believe God is allowing this to separate the wolves and sheep in His Church, I believe the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church will be restored.

God Bless You
Jesus to St Faustina:

"For you I descended from heaven to earth; for you I allowed myself to be nailed to the cross; for you I let my Sacred Heart be pierced with a lance, thus opening wide the source of mercy for you. Come, then, with trust to draw graces from this fountain. I never reject a contrite heart." (Diary, 1485)

"Remember My Passion, and if you do not believe My words, at least believe My wounds." (Diary, 379)

"It is in My Passion that you must seek light and strength." (Diary, 654)
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