Pope calls the idea of Mary as Co-Redemptrix "foolishness"
(12-14-2019, 08:54 AM)josh987654321 Wrote:
(12-14-2019, 08:08 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: doesn't mean it's a good thing to try to make it a dogma. 

It is a good and necessary thing if it's true.

Typology, Christ is the new Adam, well, it was not just Adam that caused the fall and brought death, it was Eve too, in fact Eve was the first to taste the fruit. Christ is the new Adam, and obviously we need a new Eve, which is Mary, Mary is the one who will crush the head of the serpent. Sacred Heart & Immaculate Heart, Jesus' Sacred Heart is crowned with thorns and pierced by a Lance, Mary's Immaculate Heart is also pierced, pierced by a Sword Luke 2:35.

Adam and Eve were born without original sin, Christ is the new Adam, Christ was born without original sin.... there is only one other born without original sin.... Our Blessed Mother Mary.

"In the end my Immaculate Heart will Triumph" - Our Lady of Fatima.

God Bless You
Adam and Eve being born without original sin has nothing to do with our redemption. Christ as the new Adam took on human nature as it was before the fall and thus became the "new Adam". Mary does not take on human nature to redeem it in the same way as Christ. Christ is God, Mary is not.  She cannot save or raise up man's fallen nature the way her Son can, even though his human nature was taken from her.  

The New Eve played her role already by her "fiat", she has no more role to play aside from interceeding for us to her Son from heaven. Certainly when Jesus said "apart from me you can do nothing" he also had his mother in mind.  Original sin or not Mary is still a creature, and there's an abyss of difference between a creature and the Creator and Redeemer. 

I guess I see it as putting Mary on a pedestal that is unwarranted, and as others have said "co" in English pretty much means "equality. 

Even for those RC's who don't care what Protestants or Orthodox think,  why put stumbling blocks in the way of reunion if that's ultimately what one wants?  To say Mary is a "co-redemptrix" would pretty much be like slamming the door on ANY possibility of reunion with traditional Orthodox or Protestants, not to mention there would end up being volumes upon volumes of ink spilled debating exactly what "co" means the same way there has been endless debate about "subsitit" as opposed to "est" in modern RC ecclesiology in light of Vatican II. 

No traditional Christian of East or West would deny Mary a place of very high honor as is evidenced by the various hymns, feasts and devotions,  but to raise her to the level of having some exalted role in man's redemption beyond what the holy scripture and tradition have already given her seems a bit much. 

Personally I don't see it ever being made into a dogma in the RCC unless by some chance there's some Franciscan trad pope that comes in and does it.

At any rate it's interesting.  Even über trads like the Dimonds are dead against it, so there must be a lot of division surrounding it even in tradland.
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training

"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon

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RE: Pope calls the idea of Mary as Co-Redemptrix "foolishness" - by formerbuddhist - 12-14-2019, 12:54 PM

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