Deification/Theosis
#11
Quote:Jack89
It seems pretty clear to me that in order to be "partakers of the divine nature", to be sharers in His divinity, we must transform ourselves to be more Christ-like, to be open to the grace of God in order to share in that experience.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's pretty much the reason for the Sacraments, why we adhere to the precepts of the Church, why we need to love God and our neighbor.  Not a reward/punishment thing, but more of an eye opener to the truth... 


Yes, the reason and the WHY!

Forgive my rambling, but I guess what I'm trying to point out is that the teachings are there but it isn't often defined and declared as "deification".

You are right, it is at the heart of everything and it's sad people don't know about it.
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#12
The terminology is also part of the problem.  

The Catholic Encyclopedia only discusses the negative connotation of the term "deification" or the "apotheosis"

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01650b.htm
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#13
I have a friend who is really into Father Dubay, especially his book Fire Within,  and is always talking about how he teaches that prayer isn't us doing anything but allowing God to work in us and transform us into Himself.  

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to read books for a while, I can just skim print for a general understanding of information, but here are a few references for his work referring to this concept.  Like was stated earlier in this thread he refers to unification which is a theme of the mystics such as Teresa of Avila or John of the Cross:


Quote:Transfiguration, deification, marriage – this expresses the deepest essence of contemplative culmination, that is, transfigured and oned with Him in a union beyond human words – a spiritual marriage in which the soul is transformed into the Beloved. We do not change our being but appear to be God.
https://richardconlin.wordpress.com/2017...mas-dubay/


Quote:Level 9: Transforming Union

If Level 8 is “spiritual betrothal,” then Level 9 is “spiritual marriage.” Conforming union involves the consent of the will to union, but Transforming Union is the union itself. This is the highest grade of perfection in prayer, and St. John of the Cross said it is “nothing less than a transformation into God.” It is at this stage that deification occurs, and by grace a soul becomes more divine than human. One’s entire being is captivated by God and everything he does is completely united to God. The soul and God are so united at this stage that they cannot be separated. This is the goal toward which all Catholics should be striving.
https://onepeterfive.com/the-ascending-w...r-part-ii/



Again, it's a concept that isn't taught and understood nearly enough and it seems to be a matter of semantics which causes a speed bump since such terms as "divination" and "becoming God" are so easily misunderstood as occult or New Age ideas.

But we discuss trying to "get to Heaven" more than trying to become "like God" and unfortunately the former doesn't convey nearly the same personal passion and intimacy as the latter.
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#14
(01-13-2020, 09:40 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: I have a friend who is really into Father Dubay, especially his book Fire Within,  and is always talking about how he teaches that prayer isn't us doing anything but allowing God to work in us and transform us into Himself.  

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to read books for a while, I can just skim print for a general understanding of information, but here are a few references for his work referring to this concept.  Like was stated earlier in this thread he refers to unification which is a theme of the mystics such as Teresa of Avila or John of the Cross:


Quote:Transfiguration, deification, marriage – this expresses the deepest essence of contemplative culmination, that is, transfigured and oned with Him in a union beyond human words – a spiritual marriage in which the soul is transformed into the Beloved. We do not change our being but appear to be God.
https://richardconlin.wordpress.com/2017...mas-dubay/


Quote:Level 9: Transforming Union

If Level 8 is “spiritual betrothal,” then Level 9 is “spiritual marriage.” Conforming union involves the consent of the will to union, but Transforming Union is the union itself. This is the highest grade of perfection in prayer, and St. John of the Cross said it is “nothing less than a transformation into God.” It is at this stage that deification occurs, and by grace a soul becomes more divine than human. One’s entire being is captivated by God and everything he does is completely united to God. The soul and God are so united at this stage that they cannot be separated. This is the goal toward which all Catholics should be striving.
https://onepeterfive.com/the-ascending-w...r-part-ii/



Again, it's a concept that isn't taught and understood nearly enough and it seems to be a matter of semantics which causes a speed bump since such terms as "divination" and "becoming God" are so easily misunderstood as occult or New Age ideas.

But we discuss trying to "get to Heaven" more than trying to become "like God" and unfortunately the former doesn't convey nearly the same personal passion and intimacy as the latter.
Yeah, this is pretty much what I think theosis has developed into in the West. The mystical union, where we become completely submitted to God's will and allow Him to work through us rather than just in us. And the best way to this is through detachment from creatures.

The problem is exactly as you say, where people think that saying that we "become God" means that we become His equal or something blasphemous. Or even something more aberrant like the Mormons and their strange ideas.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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#15
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#16
(01-14-2020, 11:42 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
[Image: quote-he-jesus-became-what-we-are-that-h...-27-65.jpg]

It's that kind of understanding of the Incarnation which makes me fill with joy and adoration, but also rage when non-believers criticize God as some sort of tyrant or "supreme dictator in the sky." Would a tyrant willingly put on our nature so that we may be like him? I think not.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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#17
(01-11-2020, 03:35 PM)jack89 Wrote: Why isn't this teaching stressed more in the Catholic Church?  It's clearly a central teaching, but isn't often directly addressed or taught, at least anymore. [...]

Any idea why this isn't stressed in Catholicism?  I must confess, I've watched quite a few videos and read some articles from Eastern Orthodox sources on the subject.  I feel like I'm cheating or something.

It isn't stressed for two simple reasons: 1) most priests these days don't know a single thing about the real, profound, spiritual implications of their Faith (if they really understand their Faith in the first place); and 2) they don't live it themselves and hence don't care to talk about these things even if they learned briefly about them in passing.

But if you read any of the great Catholic saints, doctors, or theologians, they all talk about it all the time. For 20th century, Fr. Juan Arintero's The Mystical Evolution, Garrigou-Lagrange's quasi-popular works, Fr. Gabriel of St. Mary Magdalene's works, and Fr. Jordan Aumann are all good places to start. More contemporary, Fr. Dubay's works and Ralph Martin's The Fulfillment of All Desire. In the context of mental prayer, the classic book is Dom Lehodey's The Ways of Mental Prayer.

Traditional seminaries still teach these topics over the span of several courses and in different contexts. Usually the classic manuals of spiritual theology are used as textbooks. Talking about the more lofty aspects of the spiritual life is usually reserved for spiritual direction.
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