Clerical celibacy, Eastern defense
(01-24-2020, 10:25 PM)austenbosten Wrote: And that's where MagisterMusicae is spot on about the Apostolic Tradition argument.  While practically there are good arguments, it really comes down to practice.  Latins have had celibate priesthood for as long as we have been saying the Nicene Creed.  We should only consider changing it if the Church is approaching near collapse.  We are nowhere close to that and if the Vatican would get back to teaching Catholicism instead of Vatican II and the devil's farts that come with it, then perhaps they might see the seminaries grow once again.

That is why I have said I think married clergy is a solution looking for a problem.

The very fact that it seem to be the panacea for "pedophile" clergy, for the dearth of vocations, now the particular "culture" in the Amazon (which peopl ahev pointed out is a red herring) and probably soon for climate change, shows that it is desired, and the problems are being made to fit a particular narrative.

The goal is married clergy, either as an endpoint or as the next step towards the ultimate goal. I think the goal is to instill in every way possible a merely natural humanistic religious sense which always defers to a practical end, so as to gently eliminate the supernatural (knowing it is impossible to violently remove it such as in the French Revolution). The married priest is just the next step towards turning the priest into a mere Protestant pastor with some Sacramental power but in a palatable way for the majority of people they have been conditioning and poisoning for many years now—drop by drop, making the poison which will result in the embrace of a totally naturalistic religion more drinkable and the evil unnoticeable.

And the problems posited which all seem to have this same solution of married Latin priests always can be shown to never be adequately treated by married priests.

The "pedophile" problem is not a pedophile problem at all, it is a homosexual ephebophilia. Pedophilia is a mental disease which seeks sexual pleasure from those clearly incapable of offering it or understanding it because pre-pubescent. Ephebophilia seeks this pleasure from the pubescent or post-pubescent, who are capable or nearly so who can understand these things. Ephebophilia is closely tied up with homosexuality where many homosexual men have a predilection for men who appear to be young teenagers. Survey the cases in the Church and one finds it is predominently male-on-male abuse of pubescent or post-pubescent boys. Since heterosexual marriage doesn't fix homosexual desires, married clergy doesn't fix this problem.

The vocational problem can be easily shown to be the new concept of the priesthood, which has destroyed the self-sacrificial notion so clearly enunciated before the Council, to a kind of Protestant pastor/self-help guru that the modern priest is. Of course that destroys a young man's desire to offer himself for a celibate priesthood, if he's just going to be a glorified Christian social worker. The stats from the gutting of the traditional notion of the priesthood can clearly be linked to the decline. So failing to return to the traditional notion, and lowering the bar even farther towards a Protestant pastor with some powers from Orders, who is not firstly, as Christ, to sacrifice himself for his flock rather than a family, is never going to encourage vocations. It might fix the numbers for a few years, but will ultimately make the situation worse, not better. If you don't have enough SEALs do you start lowering the fitness standards?

So, as I say, married clergy in the Latin Church is a solution looking for a problem. The problem is that there are a lot of people today trying to find a problem to which to demand this solution they have curated so well for whatever opportunity they can find.
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RE: Clerical celibacy, Eastern defense - by MagisterMusicae - 01-29-2020, 09:13 PM

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