Russia, and the ironic attacks from the left.
#11
(02-14-2020, 11:15 AM)19405 Wrote: As for Russia being a redeemed Christian county, do Christian countries have super high abortion rates - and legal abortion? (Russia has the same regime on abortion as does France, but Russia has a higher abortion rate). And do they have super high murder rates? Do they have 3% church attendance? Do they invade Christian countries with 4 times their Church attendance, as the Russian army did with Ukraine? Do Christians, such as Putin the Great, praise Stalin? The nexus between the infiltrators of the Russian kept church, and the government, come from the Soviet period. So too do the two spies who run the state and the church (but I repeat myself), come from the Soviet-era.

Abortion may be legal in Russia, but President Putin himself has actively pursued and promotes a population agenda rather then a depopulation agenda here in the west, night and day difference, although yes it would be good if they removed abortion in Russia which we should continue to pray for them.

Murder is still a crime, so those rates are irrelevant and wherever you got those rates from ??

I also don't know what the Church attendance is, I'm sure it's more then 3%, so again, wherever you got those statistics from Huh?

Do they invade Christian Countries? What are you talking about? Ukraine was a mess and Obama's administration had their hands well in that situation before Russia did, unfortunately I wasn't paying attention at that time so am unaware of how it played out.

Does Putin praise Stalin? I think he has some misguided views about Stalin, but he also acknowledges many of the crimes committed by the Bolsheviks and Communists and also criticized them on numerous occasions too.

Patriarch Kirill of Moscow is more Catholic then Francis.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
Jesus to St Faustina:

"For you I descended from heaven to earth; for you I allowed myself to be nailed to the cross; for you I let my Sacred Heart be pierced with a lance, thus opening wide the source of mercy for you. Come, then, with trust to draw graces from this fountain. I never reject a contrite heart." (Diary, 1485)

"Remember My Passion, and if you do not believe My words, at least believe My wounds." (Diary, 379)

"It is in My Passion that you must seek light and strength." (Diary, 654)
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#12
(02-13-2020, 12:38 PM)newenglandsun Wrote:
(02-13-2020, 12:25 PM)FultonFan Wrote: Given the seeming likelihood of Bernie as the Dem. candidate, I can't help but marvel at how ironic the whole thing appears.
The left went after Trump for being civil with Russia.
Now the new Dem candidate is a socialist, with ideas that appear to come straight from the Bolsheviks.
It's obvious what the left hates: Russia's turn towards Christendom.
Now, I realize that Russia isn't a "Catholic country", but, it would seem to me, that is may very well be on the path to achieving that end. Just thought it would be something interesting to discuss.
It depends how liberal Rome goes and how liberal Constantinople remains but they could verily enter through an Eastern Rite.

(02-15-2020, 12:43 AM)josh987654321 Wrote:
(02-14-2020, 11:15 AM)19405 Wrote: As for Russia being a redeemed Christian county, do Christian countries have super high abortion rates - and legal abortion? (Russia has the same regime on abortion as does France, but Russia has a higher abortion rate). And do they have super high murder rates? Do they have 3% church attendance? Do they invade Christian countries with 4 times their Church attendance, as the Russian army did with Ukraine? Do Christians, such as Putin the Great, praise Stalin? The nexus between the infiltrators of the Russian kept  church, and the government, come from the Soviet period. So too do the two spies who run the state and the church (but I repeat myself), come from the Soviet-era.

Abortion may be legal in Russia, but President Putin himself has actively pursued and promotes a population agenda rather then a depopulation agenda here in the west, night and day difference, although yes it would be good if they removed abortion in Russia which we should continue to pray for them.

Murder is still a crime, so those rates are irrelevant and wherever you got those rates from ??

I also don't know what the Church attendance is, I'm sure it's more then 3%, so again, wherever you got those statistics from Huh?

Do they invade Christian Countries? What are you talking about? Ukraine was a mess and Obama's administration had their hands well in that situation before Russia did, unfortunately I wasn't paying attention at that time so am unaware of how it played out.

Does Putin praise Stalin? I think he has some misguided views about Stalin, but he also acknowledges many of the crimes committed by the Bolsheviks and Communists and also criticized them on numerous occasions too.

Patriarch Kirill of Moscow is more Catholic then Francis.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
Anyone interested in Putin in the context should seriously consider reading Dr. Matthew Raphael Johnson's articles about him on his site www.rusjournal.org, his radio program "The Orthodox Nationalist" (all the lectures are hosted on the Radio Albion site)  or his book "Russian Populist" which you can get on Amazon.  His recent book "The Soviet Experiment" is good too,as it goes into some detail about the Revolution and Stalin. 

Putin and the Russia of today needs to be understood in the wider context of history- - both Russia's (from Peter I through the fall of the Iron Curtain)  and geopolitics as a whole.  It's not something a few soundbites from either side can give,  it takes serious study and an open mind. 

Even if church attendance is semi low there is no scorched earth Vatican II style revisionism of the liturgy or the doctrine of the Orthodox church. The rebuilding,  interest in Orthodoxy and in general resurgence is actually pretty wondrous considering how persecuted it was during the Soviet era.  The MP has a lot to answer for and did a lot of damage for sure, but the resurgence of Orthodox life and ideals is pretty fascinating to behold.  The old 70's and 80's trope of Russians as nothing but drunk and menacing communists is false.  

As far as abortion goes you're right, Putin has tried to push a more pro life stance.  Either way I'll say it here,  this side of the second coming no nation will ever ban abortion outright.  It's a utopian pipe dream and won't happen, period, close the book. 

Russia has always had a complex, sometimes hostile relationship with Ukraine. Again, Johnson's other book on Ukrainian Nationalism is worth reading for some context into this relationship.  It's far more complex than talking heads on both sides of the issue would like to admit and it runs deep, like centuries deep. 

The Russia issue is a fascinating and complex one, and a topic that demands serious, sustained reading and research with an open mind.
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
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#13
Don't let your rightly-held contempt for the sexual revolution get you to buy propaganda from outlets (like RT) that until a few years ago were far Left. Don't let the Catholic contrarian-instinct rob you of your ability to see that occasionally, the consensus is basically (though not entirely) right.

So, Josh, I was responding to the characterization of Russia as a great Christian nation, which means that things like its murder rate and drug use are relevant. Murder being illegal, doesn't mean that a crazy murder rate is not indicative of where its culture is. And the very high murder rate is a very very well known fact. I just googled it and found this in about two mins. https://www.nationmaster.com/country-inf...icide-rate
Those figures are old but you can see it's about 3x the rate of the US. I'm sure you can find better stats, but if you don't know their murder rate is high, you don't know much about it.

As for the church attendance, go to the Pew Research Center. They report monthly attendance at 7%. I don't remember where I learned 3% as weekly, but if monthly is 7%, then weekly is probably about 3%. And contra former buddhist, that is not "semi-low." That is "pretty damned low." And if we go by church attendance (and to respond to formerbuddhist, they're countries where Eastern liturgies are more common) Ukraine has a higher church attendance rate than Russia, as did Georgia, which Putin also invaded.

If you need proof that Putin praised Stalin, just google "Putin and Stalin." His "misguided" views on the vicious atheist genocidal murdering Communist are very very well known. And they are all in covering up genocide and saying that his net contribution was positive. In his early days, you are correct, he criticized Stalin - but for the last several years, it has been alotta love.

As for abortion, according to the Moscow times, 90% of abortions get some state funding. Putin said this: “In the modern world, the decision is up to the woman herself. Any decisions on restricting abortion in the future, must be careful, considered and based on the general mood in society and the moral and ethical norms that have developed in society.” I think if a Republican said that, you'd call him a RINO fake prolifer coward. If that GOPe guy also occasionally supported state-funding of abortion -- state funding -- you would never call him prolife. Putin takes whatever he thinks the Russians want. Yes, in the twenty-teens, Russia had to start taking seriously its low birth rate...not quite the same thing as trying to save babies from abortion.

And formerbuddhist, perhaps no country could ever get rid of abortion, but maybe a country could adopt the laws currently on offer in the US states? Because it is apparently possible. Maybe, despite our fallenness, a praiseworthy Christian country, could eliminate a loophole that allows for abortion into the 22nd week, after viability. False moral equivalencies on abortion legislation stop the saving of lives.

And, with fisheaters in general, I find it very odd, that the sort of Western conservative who complains about respecting national boundaries, the stupidity of imperialistic wars, laments gun control, etc, doesn't have a single negative thing to say about Putin.
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#14
But formerbuddhist, you are correct that the issues in Russia are complex, and do need serious study. I am not out to demonize the Russian people, and I am glad that you admit that Putin has a lot to answer for.

I am firmly of the opinion however, we can have moral certitude about whether or not to celebrate Russia's current direction. And I cannot celebrate it.

And it is here I will leave the subject, and leave whomever wishes the last word.
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#15
(02-15-2020, 04:28 PM)19405 Wrote: But formerbuddhist, you are correct that the issues in Russia are complex, and do need serious study. I am not out to demonize the Russian people, and I am glad that you admit that Putin has a lot to answer for.

I am firmly of the opinion however, we can have moral certitude about whether or not to celebrate Russia's current direction. And I cannot celebrate it.

And it is here I will leave the subject, and leave whomever wishes the last word.
I've got no beef with you man.  We're all mature enough to have a discussion on these issues without fighting over it even when we disagree.  That's laudable in these times when any kind of debate is almost impossible because people are more emotionally driven than anything else, and/or they really don't know the depth and breadth of what they're discussing. 

Finally,  I'm not saying Putin is above reproach by any stretch.  He does have a lot to answer for,  and I for one think he's been just what Russia needed at the time he came into power but like all politicians he's got his issues. 

As for RT, I've never read it other than at a glance.  My foray into Russian issues has been studying my Orthodox Faith, especially through the lens of the Old Belief and Orthodox Nationalism. Matthew Raphael Johnson has been instrumental in opening intellectual doors for me on Russian issues, as has revisionist stuff like the Barnes Review.  The only semi left leaning news I'm into is probably 21Wire and the Saker but like anything,  I try to read everything without accepting wholesale what's said, right left or whatever. 

We will certainly have to agree to disagree on the Russia issue though.  I dont see any evidence most of western Europe is doing that has the moral high ground, although I like that more right leaning groups in places like Hungary and Poland have been at least trying to stand firm.
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
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#16
(02-15-2020, 04:18 PM)19405 Wrote: So, Josh, I was responding to the characterization of Russia as a great Christian nation

That's awfully vague, is there any "great Christian nation" today? I can name some that are largely Christian, some that are becoming more Christian and some that are becoming less Christian and moving in awful directions.

(02-15-2020, 04:18 PM)19405 Wrote: just google

There's your problem lol

President Putin has praised Stalin and criticized Stalin, just like they view the Red Army of WWII with somewhat rose colored glasses on, which is understandable since no Country or society can be expected to trash their ancestors some of whom are still alive today, so yes the Red Army did liberate Auschwitz and there should be that acknowledgement, but there should also be the understanding that people (Poland) suffered terribly under Communism too.

In any case, President Putin himself is an Orthodox Christian who was baptized and wears a Cross around his neck, I don't know how many world leaders do that. He has also rebuilt much of the Orthodox Church in Russia. IMO He has done a very good job and we should continue to pray for him and Russia and the whole world.

(02-15-2020, 04:18 PM)19405 Wrote: Putin said this: “In the modern world, the decision is up to the woman herself. Any decisions on restricting abortion in the future, must be careful, considered and based on the general mood in society and the moral and ethical norms that have developed in society.” I think if a Republican said that, you'd call him a RINO fake prolifer coward.

If that republican was promoting and encouraging large traditional families, then it would be very different, since there is no way that President Putin rejoices or is happy about abortion, which means if he sensed the will of the people there, he would remove abortion. Which is why we need to pray for him and Russia, whom our Lady of Fatima promised would be converted.

(02-15-2020, 04:18 PM)19405 Wrote: perhaps no country could ever get rid of abortion

We must all refuse to believe or accept that, thus we continue to work toward a day when this evil is removed from our societies.

(02-15-2020, 04:18 PM)19405 Wrote: And, with fisheaters in general, I find it very odd, that the sort of Western conservative who complains about respecting national boundaries, the stupidity of imperialistic wars, laments gun control, etc, doesn't have a single negative thing to say about Putin.

Easy, when a nation like ours (Australia, USA etc) pass sodomy and abortion into law, that is not the time to start a military conflict, since such a nation clearly will not have the blessings of God.

Russia I can see is on a path upward with Christendom and we should continue to pray for them, new Churches and Cathedrals are being built and restored. In the west we see Churches being run down and held in contempt, we see the great mess, corruption and evil that is in the Vatican we also see new iniquitous laws being passed (sodomy, abortion). Only Trump has halted this decadence in the west, and even he is on somewhat shaky grounds with his personal LGBT views, but Mike Pence and Ben Carson are good on those issues and Trump is perusing pro life legislation so I pray for them too.



There are many other videos like this and even President Putin himself who praised people and unveiled monuments to those who suffered under Communism in Gulag's and others who were Martyred.

God Bless You
Jesus to St Faustina:

"For you I descended from heaven to earth; for you I allowed myself to be nailed to the cross; for you I let my Sacred Heart be pierced with a lance, thus opening wide the source of mercy for you. Come, then, with trust to draw graces from this fountain. I never reject a contrite heart." (Diary, 1485)

"Remember My Passion, and if you do not believe My words, at least believe My wounds." (Diary, 379)

"It is in My Passion that you must seek light and strength." (Diary, 654)
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#17
https://www.radioalbion.com/2018/02/myst...8.html?m=1 Its over two hours but worth it.  Dr. Johnson and the host of Mysterium Fasces discussing Putin in depth.
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
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