Rights and Religious Liberty
#61
(08-24-2020, 12:07 PM)Augustinian Wrote:
(08-24-2020, 10:42 AM)Adventus Wrote: St. Gregory and the energies and Palamism should really be a non-issue theologically for RC's.

Unless you just meant it as you were simply tired of hearing it, which is understandable.
I'm just tired of hearing it.
It's basically another way of expressing virtual distinctions in God. Great. Okay, talk about something else now, please.

Haha not if you talk to Palamites!

It's a "real" distinction to them, and St Thomas Aquinas is a heretic because he said they were virtual. Then both Thomists and Palamites, everyone sh*ts on poor old Dunce Scotus because he used the mid-way distinction of formal.
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#62
(08-24-2020, 04:30 PM)austenbosten Wrote:
(08-24-2020, 12:07 PM)Augustinian Wrote:
(08-24-2020, 10:42 AM)Adventus Wrote: St. Gregory and the energies and Palamism should really be a non-issue theologically for RC's.

Unless you just meant it as you were simply tired of hearing it, which is understandable.
I'm just tired of hearing it.
It's basically another way of expressing virtual distinctions in God. Great. Okay, talk about something else now, please.

Haha not if you talk to Palamites!

It's a "real" distinction to them, and St Thomas Aquinas is a heretic because he said they were virtual.  Then both Thomists and Palamites, everyone sh*ts on poor old Dunce Scotus because he used the mid-way distinction of formal.

But...you cannot have a distinction in God, because then He ceases to have omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, etc... Okay, now I see why people accuse Palamism of polytheism.

I'll definitely have to read about Scotus, then. I have Etienne Gilson's book on Scotus' philosophy sitting on my shelf, perhaps it's time to crack it open.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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#63
(08-21-2020, 02:31 PM)Adventus Wrote:
(08-20-2020, 12:00 PM)SeekerofChrist Wrote:
(08-20-2020, 09:56 AM)Adventus Wrote: For those interested, Dr. Thomas Pink will debate Fr. David Sherry (SSPX) on Vatican 2 on November 16th.

It is supposed to focus in particular to what extent the state, on its own authority, can recognize the Church, implement and enforce what is prescribed.

Which is mostly under DH.

Where will this debate be streamed or otherwise posted online?

The debate will take place in the Reason and Theology YouTube channel on Nov. 16th @ 1:00pm (EST?).

Does anyone know if this debate took place?  I've looked on the R&T YouTube channel and found nothing.  I've also searched on YouTube for "Thomas Pink vs David Sherry debate," and variants thereof, and have found nothing.  I was looking forward to watching it.
"For the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but traditionalists."
- Pope St. Pius X

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables."
- 2 Timothy 4:3-4

"Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity."
- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
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#64
I asked Michael Lofton directly and he confirmed it was canceled. Didn't give a reason. Could have been a scheduling issue. 

I was really looking forward to it.
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#65
(12-03-2020, 01:38 PM)Adventus Wrote: I asked Michael Lofton directly and he confirmed it was canceled. Didn't give a reason. Could have been a scheduling issue. 

I was really looking forward to it.

So was I.  I've been reading some of Dr. Pink's work on the issue and listening to some recordings of his.  I think he might be onto something but would have really appreciated a live interaction with someone of the opposing point of view.
"For the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but traditionalists."
- Pope St. Pius X

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables."
- 2 Timothy 4:3-4

"Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity."
- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
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#66
If Pink is onto something and not just merely "looking for a solution" to a problem. That would put a wrench into things like Cardinal Bea and John Murray apparently making it clear they were purposefully trying to present something contrary to previous teachings.

Which could mean that even if you buy all the infiltration stuff (full hog), that the majority of bishops didn't fully comprehend what it was they were pushing through. Like a trojan horse within the trojan horse.
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#67
If it's of value, Dr John Lamont wrote a critique of Dr Pink's thesis. In my opinion (for what that's worth), he points out some significant and fatal flaws in Dr Pink's reasoning.

Originally Nova et Vetera had promised publication, but then balked, so he published it here instead : https://www.academia.edu/877072/Catholic..._the_state

It is interesting that Dr Pink actually collaborated with Dr Lamont on this critique in true academic form to further a discussion, so those like the Gordon brothers who laud Dr Pink as if he had come up with the proof that the SSPX and Msgr Lefebvre were wrong all along, is certainly not the approach that Dr Pink takes. If he were to assist in writing a critique of his own writings, it must be to further discussion, not slam others.

Dr Lamont's work is thick, and heavy, just like Dr Pink's. Even someone familiar with the theology and history will have to re-read several times to get a real understanding of the points of contention.

However, to give a sample of Dr Lamont's critique, he takes issue with one pillar on which Dr Pink suggests that the Catholic teaching on States prohibiting false religions only referred to Christian States, and this only because it bound baptized Christians. Thus, according to Dr Pink, the Roman Emperor once a baptized Christian had a duty to prohibit false worship as a baptized Christian and not as Emperor, and so the traditional Catholic teaching was only framed as instruction Catholic rulers of their duties as Catholics, not as rulers. Dr Lamont goes on to give examples where Popes were clearly appealing to rulers qua rulers in such matters and that a ruler had this duty, not merely a Christian who happened to have use of a ruler's power.

I, personally, would like to see a direct SSPX critique on the issue from one of their theologians, because I think it would show good will and give a good public face. The difficulty, however, is that those who might promote Dr Pink, like the Gordons, would likely not give equal time and consideration to the SSPX retorts, just as Nova et Vetera did not give Dr Lamont the promised space to make his critique and get the topic discussed in theological circles.

So, while waiting for such a debate, or at least waiting for some deeper analysis, Dr Lamont's critique is linked above.
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#68
Thank you, MagisterMusicae.
"For the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but traditionalists."
- Pope St. Pius X

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables."
- 2 Timothy 4:3-4

"Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity."
- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
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