Where's the Line for Catholic Sexuality?
#11
(04-01-2020, 10:52 PM)Orthodox Andy Wrote: This isn't directly related, and feel free to boot me from here if this doesn't belong, but in a Catholic worldview, what is there to be said about people who hate, or at least dislike sex and sexuality?

I think, in general, Catholics think that your aesthetic sense, your ability to appreciate beauty, is important. Being unable to enjoy sex is a deep misfortune. Being unable to even see the appeal, is too, a deep misfortune. Just as intense desire for sex with: someone you cannot have; someone unsafe; someone the same sex.....is a deep misfortune.

However, if God has removed the sexual element from someone's life, maybe that was to open her to something else. "Some are made eunuchs by nature." This is one of those theodicy questions that get talked about in disability studies classes. I don't know if I have a full answer.
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#12
"I have the right to do anything," you say--but not everything is beneficial. "I have the right to do anything"--but I will not be mastered by anything. - 1 Corinthians 6:12 NIV

Those words are from St. Paul. I think his 2 cents go a long way here....


(04-01-2020, 10:52 PM)Orthodox Andy Wrote: This isn't directly related, and feel free to boot me from here if this doesn't belong, but in a Catholic worldview, what is there to be said about people who hate, or at least dislike sex and sexuality?

Definitely off topic, but I know where you are coming from. As far as I am concerned, mankind destroyed any hope of ever being able to experience sex in a positive light. It has devolved into a most unholy power struggle where men indiscriminately devalue their own sex and women exploit that devaluing to their benefit for all its worth and then some. My advice to all young men at this point would be regardless what you hear its just not worth it by a long shot if it was ever worth anything at all. To young women.....well they've made it clear they don't care what men have to say so no point in wasting the effort to give advice in the first place.
Local anti-feminist.....if you think women deserve special treatment without any accountability for their actions expect to hear from me!
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#13
(04-02-2020, 05:14 PM)19405 Wrote:
(04-01-2020, 10:52 PM)Orthodox Andy Wrote: This isn't directly related, and feel free to boot me from here if this doesn't belong, but in a Catholic worldview, what is there to be said about people who hate, or at least dislike sex and sexuality?

I think, in general, Catholics think that your aesthetic sense, your ability to appreciate beauty, is important. Being unable to enjoy sex is a deep misfortune. Being unable to even see the appeal, is too, a deep misfortune. Just as intense desire for sex with: someone you cannot have; someone unsafe; someone the same sex.....is a deep misfortune.

However, if God has removed the sexual element from someone's life, maybe that was to open her to something else. "Some are made eunuchs by nature." This is one of those theodicy questions that get talked about in disability studies classes. I don't know if I have a full answer.

I remember before I was baptized, I hated struggling with sexual desire so much to the point that I only half ironically wished the government would drug the water supply to suppress sexual urge, or that my member would get mangled up by some piece of machinery or a tool at work. Even though I grew up in an atheist household, and I later learned my dad was quite a ladies man, I somehow imbued the "There is no sex in the USSR!" mentality. I suppose I had a low view of sex for a long time because I always saw it as standing in the way of doing the right things, or men turning into slaves for the sexual affection of a woman.
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#14
(04-02-2020, 05:49 PM)divinesilence80 Wrote: "I have the right to do anything," you say--but not everything is beneficial. "I have the right to do anything"--but I will not be mastered by anything. - 1 Corinthians 6:12 NIV

Those words are from St. Paul. I think his 2 cents go a long way here....


(04-01-2020, 10:52 PM)Orthodox Andy Wrote: This isn't directly related, and feel free to boot me from here if this doesn't belong, but in a Catholic worldview, what is there to be said about people who hate, or at least dislike sex and sexuality?

Definitely off topic, but I know where you are coming from. As far as I am concerned, mankind destroyed any hope of ever being able to experience sex in a positive light. It has devolved into a most unholy power struggle where men indiscriminately devalue their own sex and women exploit that devaluing to their benefit for all its worth and then some. My advice to all young men at this point would be regardless what you hear its just not worth it by a long shot if it was ever worth anything at all. To young women.....well they've made it clear they don't care what men have to say so no point in wasting the effort to give advice in the first place.

So, I deeply disagree with your second paragraph, but I like your citing Paul a lot.
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#15
(04-02-2020, 05:52 PM)Orthodox Andy Wrote:
(04-02-2020, 05:14 PM)19405 Wrote:
(04-01-2020, 10:52 PM)Orthodox Andy Wrote: This isn't directly related, and feel free to boot me from here if this doesn't belong, but in a Catholic worldview, what is there to be said about people who hate, or at least dislike sex and sexuality?

I think, in general, Catholics think that your aesthetic sense, your ability to appreciate beauty, is important. Being unable to enjoy sex is a deep misfortune. Being unable to even see the appeal, is too, a deep misfortune. Just as intense desire for sex with: someone you cannot have; someone unsafe; someone the same sex.....is a deep misfortune.

However, if God has removed the sexual element from someone's life, maybe that was to open her to something else. "Some are made eunuchs by nature." This is one of those theodicy questions that get talked about in disability studies classes. I don't know if I have a full answer.

I remember before I was baptized, I hated struggling with sexual desire so much to the point that I only half ironically wished the government would drug the water supply to suppress sexual urge, or that my member would get mangled up by some piece of machinery or a tool at work. Even though I grew up in an atheist household, and I later learned my dad was quite a ladies man, I somehow imbued the "There is no sex in the USSR!" mentality. I suppose I had a low view of sex for a long time because I always saw it as standing in the way of doing the right things, or men turning into slaves for the sexual affection of a woman.

I am sorry that you went through that. I had a few very brief periods of thinking that way. I am so grateful I am no longer there. God bless you.
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#16
(04-02-2020, 06:22 PM)19405 Wrote:
(04-02-2020, 05:52 PM)Orthodox Andy Wrote:
(04-02-2020, 05:14 PM)19405 Wrote:
(04-01-2020, 10:52 PM)Orthodox Andy Wrote: This isn't directly related, and feel free to boot me from here if this doesn't belong, but in a Catholic worldview, what is there to be said about people who hate, or at least dislike sex and sexuality?

I think, in general, Catholics think that your aesthetic sense, your ability to appreciate beauty, is important. Being unable to enjoy sex is a deep misfortune. Being unable to even see the appeal, is too, a deep misfortune. Just as intense desire for sex with: someone you cannot have; someone unsafe; someone the same sex.....is a deep misfortune.

However, if God has removed the sexual element from someone's life, maybe that was to open her to something else. "Some are made eunuchs by nature." This is one of those theodicy questions that get talked about in disability studies classes. I don't know if I have a full answer.

I remember before I was baptized, I hated struggling with sexual desire so much to the point that I only half ironically wished the government would drug the water supply to suppress sexual urge, or that my member would get mangled up by some piece of machinery or a tool at work. Even though I grew up in an atheist household, and I later learned my dad was quite a ladies man, I somehow imbued the "There is no sex in the USSR!" mentality. I suppose I had a low view of sex for a long time because I always saw it as standing in the way of doing the right things, or men turning into slaves for the sexual affection of a woman.

I am sorry that you went through that. I had a few very brief periods of thinking that way. I am so grateful I am no longer there. God bless you.

Baptism helped a lot on both extremes. It reduced a lot of the bad stuff I was watching, and it also made me more at ease with the proper place of sex in the world. Of course that doesn't mean sometimes isolation doesn't get the better of me, especially without being able to commune these days. It feels so strange to live in a time where sex is either the idol of the new age, or totally reviled.
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#17
(04-02-2020, 05:52 PM)Orthodox Andy Wrote: I remember before I was baptized, I hated struggling with sexual desire so much to the point that I only half ironically wished the government would drug the water supply to suppress sexual urge, or that my member would get mangled up by some piece of machinery or a tool at work. Even though I grew up in an atheist household, and I later learned my dad was quite a ladies man, I somehow imbued the "There is no sex in the USSR!" mentality. I suppose I had a low view of sex for a long time because I always saw it as standing in the way of doing the right things, or men turning into slaves for the sexual affection of a woman.


I think this is a very common problem and has caused many to lose the Faith and turn from it despairing of the seemingly impossible standards.  Well, that's for those who have been taught about mortal sin, anyway, although as you point out it can be a degrading struggle even if you aren't aware of sin.

It's so sad that better "real sexual education" wasn't more readily available to Catholics and everyone.


I do think the internet, although it has brought porn addiction, has also brought good sources for support for Catholics struggling to lead chaste lives.  At least people are more aware that others are struggling too and don't feel as alone and ashamed.
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#18
(04-02-2020, 06:41 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote:
(04-02-2020, 05:52 PM)Orthodox Andy Wrote: I remember before I was baptized, I hated struggling with sexual desire so much to the point that I only half ironically wished the government would drug the water supply to suppress sexual urge, or that my member would get mangled up by some piece of machinery or a tool at work. Even though I grew up in an atheist household, and I later learned my dad was quite a ladies man, I somehow imbued the "There is no sex in the USSR!" mentality. I suppose I had a low view of sex for a long time because I always saw it as standing in the way of doing the right things, or men turning into slaves for the sexual affection of a woman.


I think this is a very common problem and has caused many to lose the Faith and turn from it despairing of the seemingly impossible standards.  Well, that's for those who have been taught about mortal sin, anyway, although as you point out it can be a degrading struggle even if you aren't aware of sin.

It's so sad that better "real sexual education" wasn't more readily available to Catholics and everyone.


I do think the internet, although it has brought porn addiction, has also brought good sources for support for Catholics struggling to lead chaste lives.  At least people are more aware that others are struggling too and don't feel as alone and ashamed.

I think there is naturally a desire to over correct, in an age like this. I am Eastern Orthodox so our relation to sex can be much different, but it's hard to find a balance. Especially in a situation like mine where being a 24 year old virgin is very odd for people these days.
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#19
(04-02-2020, 07:01 PM)Orthodox Andy Wrote: I think there is naturally a desire to over correct, in an age like this. I am Eastern Orthodox so our relation to sex can be much different, but it's hard to find a balance. Especially in a situation like mine where being a 24 year old virgin is very odd for people these days.


Yes, and overcorrection by Jansenism, mentioned earlier in this thread, in Irish families was passed down for over a century. 

Always so hard to find the balance.

And today with porn, soft and hardcore alike, found everywhere I especially sympathize with young men and their struggles.  

Alas, the Desert Fathers still struggled, even as hermits. 

God is only too pleased by those who are doing their best to fight the good fight and always ready to forgive.

St. Therese said that sinners should never be astonished by their sins when they fall, just as a toddler is not astonished when they fall, but are ever eager to get up and try again.

And no act of self-control is isolated...it contributes in a positive way to self-mastery in other areas of your life.

I commend you for your fortitude!  Find likeminded friends or a group online and never give in to discouragement and despair.
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#20
(04-02-2020, 09:29 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote:
(04-02-2020, 07:01 PM)Orthodox Andy Wrote: I think there is naturally a desire to over correct, in an age like this. I am Eastern Orthodox so our relation to sex can be much different, but it's hard to find a balance. Especially in a situation like mine where being a 24 year old virgin is very odd for people these days.


Yes, and overcorrection by Jansenism, mentioned earlier in this thread, in Irish families was passed down for over a century. 

Always so hard to find the balance.

And today with porn, soft and hardcore alike, found everywhere I especially sympathize with young men and their struggles.  

Alas, the Desert Fathers still struggled, even as hermits. 

God is only too pleased by those who are doing their best to fight the good fight and always ready to forgive.

St. Therese said that sinners should never be astonished by their sins when they fall, just as a toddler is not astonished when they fall, but are ever eager to get up and try again.

And no act of self-control is isolated...it contributes in a positive way to self-mastery in other areas of your life.

I commend you for your fortitude!  Find likeminded friends or a group online and never give in to discouragement and despair.

I wouldn't call it self control more as lack of opportunity in my case. As in there just aren't a lot of single females who aren't heavily damaged white trash around here, period. Though I suppose I am overweight and have poor social skills, so that is never a winner either. 

As regards sin, yes, you are right that we should never be astonished. I was starting to learn how to fast and to avoid all the porn junk after I got baptized. Until coronavirus shut down all the churches, and I was deprived of communion. I fast reverted back to my lizard brain of just seeking physical gratification. I suppose it's a reminder that I just do a better job of covering up some of my problems than others. The only good thing about being away from church is I am forced to face up to myself on my own terms. And I see that I am no better than anyone else. If one can be gripped by a carelessness for God, to be consumed by food, drink, or lust..... where does it end? Man is capable of horrible things without restraint. 

A lot of people do seem to imply, especially since I have been baptized, that maybe a woman would be a positive force in my life. Who knows.
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