SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups
#31
(04-23-2020, 03:22 PM)Adventus Wrote: The part that bothers me about this whole thing is that NO priests weren't afforded the same treatment by some of the very people that are coming to the rescue for the SSPX. I recall seeing callings of public hangings (who knows how literal they meant that) without even having all the information and names were most certainly used in those situations. 

Hi Adventus,

Actual Catholic (now known as “traditional“ Catholic) priests commit such vile acts in spite of their connection with actual Catholicism; but those of the new Vatican II religion commit such vile acts largely because of their new religion, as this new religion is utterly polluted with the infernal spirit of this world.

As for those proven, after due process, to have sexually molested any child, they should indeed be publicly executed. This should occur whether the offender is connected to actual Catholicism or not, and regardless of whether the offender is a priest or not.
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#32
(04-23-2020, 08:12 PM)JacksonE Wrote:
(04-23-2020, 03:22 PM)Adventus Wrote: The part that bothers me about this whole thing is that NO priests weren't afforded the same treatment by some of the very people that are coming to the rescue for the SSPX. I recall seeing callings of public hangings (who knows how literal they meant that) without even having all the information and names were most certainly used in those situations. 

Hi Adventus,

Actual Catholic (now known as “traditional“ Catholic) priests commit such vile acts in spite of their connection with actual Catholicism; but those of the new Vatican II religion commit such vile acts largely because of their new religion, as this new religion is utterly polluted with the infernal spirit of this world.

As for those proven, after due process, to have sexually molested any child, they should indeed be publicly executed. This should occur whether the offender is connected to actual Catholicism or not, and regardless of whether the offender is a priest or not.

What are you talking about? What specifically is a part of this new religion that would incline someone to do such things? And by a part, I mean it is plainly seen and must be followed. This sounds utterly ridiculous. 
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#33
(04-24-2020, 10:41 AM)OAdventus Wrote:
(04-23-2020, 08:12 PM)JacksonE Wrote:
(04-23-2020, 03:22 PM)Adventus Wrote: The part that bothers me about this whole thing is that NO priests weren't afforded the same treatment by some of the very people that are coming to the rescue for the SSPX. I recall seeing callings of public hangings (who knows how literal they meant that) without even having all the information and names were most certainly used in those situations. 

Hi Adventus,

Actual Catholic (now known as “traditional“ Catholic) priests commit such vile acts in spite of their connection with actual Catholicism; but those of the new Vatican II religion commit such vile acts largely because of their new religion, as this new religion is utterly polluted with the infernal spirit of this world.

As for those proven, after due process, to have sexually molested any child, they should indeed be publicly executed. This should occur whether the offender is connected to actual Catholicism or not, and regardless of whether the offender is a priest or not.

What are you talking about? What specifically is a part of this new religion that would incline someone to do such things? And by a part, I mean it is plainly seen and must be followed. This sounds utterly ridiculous. 

The dread spirit of this world is manifested in many ways by the new Vatican II religion. Paramount is its diabolical narcissism, as manifested in, for example, Gaudium et spes paragraph 12. The continual celebration of self in this diabolical new religion (as further manifested in, for instance, its priests as showmen and its churches in the round where its adherents may blissfully gaze upon themselves) leads to a continual pursuit of sensual gratification. Because, as with drug addicts, new forms of sensual gratification become necessary as the previous ones no longer satisfy, these deformed souls are eventually led into the abyss of perversion via sodomy, pedophilia, and all the rest of it.

For more on the new religion of the Judas Council (V2), see, e.g.:

http://archives.sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/p...ligion.htm

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/mode...enew2.html

http://www.dominicansavrille.us/is-there...ar-church/

https://sspx.org/en/new-catechism-catholic
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#34
Police reports, indictments, and court rulings, and prison sentences against the sexual predators in this CM report isn’t fact enough to prove CM is simply reporting ‘facts’ to many for some reason. Doesn’t surprise me. Many here in this forum sound exactly the CAF forum about CM. Might I suggest we stop using our sin of Pride, specifically Judging Others, and help bring the Church together and not divide it anymore? This CM report simply shows Satan's control in the Church is deeper than we all know. Now what? We should be demanding the Church read us the 3rd Secret of Fatima once and for all. I believe in that message the issues in the Church will finally come to light!
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#35
(04-24-2020, 01:20 PM)JacksonE Wrote:
(04-24-2020, 10:41 AM)OAdventus Wrote:
(04-23-2020, 08:12 PM)JacksonE Wrote:
(04-23-2020, 03:22 PM)Adventus Wrote: The part that bothers me about this whole thing is that NO priests weren't afforded the same treatment by some of the very people that are coming to the rescue for the SSPX. I recall seeing callings of public hangings (who knows how literal they meant that) without even having all the information and names were most certainly used in those situations. 

Hi Adventus,

Actual Catholic (now known as “traditional“ Catholic) priests commit such vile acts in spite of their connection with actual Catholicism; but those of the new Vatican II religion commit such vile acts largely because of their new religion, as this new religion is utterly polluted with the infernal spirit of this world.

As for those proven, after due process, to have sexually molested any child, they should indeed be publicly executed. This should occur whether the offender is connected to actual Catholicism or not, and regardless of whether the offender is a priest or not.

What are you talking about? What specifically is a part of this new religion that would incline someone to do such things? And by a part, I mean it is plainly seen and must be followed. This sounds utterly ridiculous. 

The dread spirit of this world is manifested in many ways by the new Vatican II religion. Paramount is its diabolical narcissism, as manifested in, for example, Gaudium et spes paragraph 12. The continual celebration of self in this diabolical new religion (as further manifested in, for instance, its priests as showmen and its churches in the round where its adherents may blissfully gaze upon themselves) leads to a continual pursuit of sensual gratification. Because, as with drug addicts, new forms of sensual gratification become necessary as the previous ones no longer satisfy, these deformed souls are eventually led into the abyss of perversion via sodomy, pedophilia, and all the rest of it.

For more on the new religion of the Judas Council (V2), see, e.g.:

http://archives.sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/p...ligion.htm

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/mode...enew2.html

http://www.dominicansavrille.us/is-there...ar-church/

https://sspx.org/en/new-catechism-catholic

The number of projections and hoops you have to go through to get to that conclusion is astronomical. One can see the problems in Vatican 2, the Liturgy, and pretty much the entirety of the Church......and not need to leap to this. 
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#36
(04-24-2020, 01:49 PM)SeekSalvation Wrote: Police reports, indictments, and court rulings, and prison sentences against the sexual predators in this CM report isn’t fact enough to prove CM is simply reporting ‘facts’ to many for some reason.

No one here things everything CM wrote/said was salacious garbage, but 90% of what they wrote was vile editorializing of their vicious hatred of anything non-CM.

Yes, there were cases of priests who did evil things. Even the SSPX admits this. All of these cases are public and known.

In each case where there were more than bare accusations (which are not facts)—such as public records like court judgements—the SSPX cooperated with the authorities. If you look at the Fr Abbet case reported, it was the SSPX who turned the priest in, and while they did allow a priest and lawyer to help him in his defense (even the guilty are entitled to counselling and defense to ensure real justice and not just vengeance is done), they accepted the court determination.

There were a few cases with lay men (so not SSPX members), but the problem here is that one often gets involved with the internal forum. Often these things come up in confession or private discussions where the moral law does not allow a priest to speak about his knowledge of these things, either because of the seal of confession, or because or the professional secrecy morally demanded.

In all of those cases, however, CM reports only a single source, and often no source at all. In short, they report an accusation.

CM reports a few facts, which if looked at independently are evil cases that were dealt with. Then they mix in loads of speculation to make it seem like there is some devious intrigue here. Then they turn the whole things up to 11 with loaded phrases.

The verifiable facts from public record (not speculation or gossip) are simple :
  • A few priests in the SSPX have done evil things with children. They have been punished with the SSPX turning them in.
  • At least one priest has been alleged to have sought out detailed information from an adult woman about matters sexual (as reported there is no civil crime, but there would be an ecclesiastical one), but has never been convicted of this, the SSPX moved him away from her and forbid him to hear womens' confessions or have private meetings with women while they investigated (arguably inadequate)—despite CM's vague attempt to suggest that this was child sexual abuse.
  • The SSPX has made serious errors in dealing with some cases.
Other facts, though are important :
  • CM has been shown before to play fast and loose with fact to spin a narrative and despite this not correct provable errors in their reporting.
  • CM has cited no law enforcement sources to back up their claim of multiple investigations, which typically journalists do by asking the police, and getting and printing the response, "we can't discuss that because of an ongoing investigation."
  • CM asked the SSPX questions (where they got the e-mails), but never responded after getting that to SSPX inquiries. As soon as they had their dirt they ghosted the SSPX folks.
If it were just facts, no one could argue, but CM reported a few facts, and then spun them into their own narrative which was not factual : "Loosely based on a true story."

(04-24-2020, 01:49 PM)SeekSalvation Wrote: Doesn’t surprise me. Many here in this forum sound exactly the CAF forum about CM. Might I suggest we stop using our sin of Pride, specifically Judging Others, and help bring the Church together and not divide it anymore?

Do you think that people here who are calling out CM for their Pride and judgement of others are not trying to do this!? We're not just complaining because we're trying to protect the SSPX or perverts. We want the truth and justice, for victims and the accused! CM is not after this.

If Voris and CM were trying to clean out the filth (a good thing), and that's all, and they were trying to unite us, why did they not correct or respond to Matt Gaspers (not an SSPX supporter) proof that their work on the previous SSPX hit-piece was factually incorrect. Instead Voris got on Twitter and attacked him as supporting pedophiles, then blocked him.

Listen, if there is filth in the SSPX to come out and be fixed, then that should be done. No good Catholic want to defend evil. Voris and CM, unfortunately, have shown they are not after facts or purging evil, but slandering the SSPX in any way possible. As Voris has claimed, and Rod Dreher said, they've been planning this for a while. If it is so important, why did they not go to police when they found out, rather than build up a special report?

I can only speculate why, but that's exactly the unhealthy Pride and judgement that does not bring us together.

I think Steve Skojec (also not an SSPX supporter) put it brilliantly, and also showed why we cannot "Unite the Clans" like you would suggest without a common cause. Right now, as he said, "we have a common enemy and that's not enough."
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#37
(04-24-2020, 04:39 PM)rose0325 Wrote:
(04-24-2020, 03:13 PM)Adventus Wrote: The number of projections and hoops you have to go through to get to that conclusion is astronomical. One can see the problems in Vatican 2, the Liturgy, and pretty much the entirety of the Church......and not need to leap to this. 

It's quite simple: lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.

The liturgy has been undermined, and so has doctrine. In the midst of this destruction, one cannot expect the majority of Catholics to be truly living the faith, which is why this kind of rampant immorality is not surprising in the least.

Perverts like ex-Cdl. McCarrick and Cdl. Bernadin led the cabal to illegally obtain an indult for the sacrilegious practice of communion in the hand in the United States, undermining both liturgy and doctrine. Go figure.

I don't make connections to every aspect of people's lives to this very thing. It's similar to blaming everything on demons. This goes far beyond how the Church has understood it. It doesn't in the slightest dismiss lex orandi..".....".....either, it simply means that taking hard-line connections like that is not necessary and even irresponsible in some cases.
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#38
(04-24-2020, 04:39 PM)rose0325 Wrote:
(04-24-2020, 03:13 PM)Adventus Wrote: The number of projections and hoops you have to go through to get to that conclusion is astronomical. One can see the problems in Vatican 2, the Liturgy, and pretty much the entirety of the Church......and not need to leap to this. 

It's quite simple: lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.

The liturgy has been undermined, and so has doctrine. In the midst of this destruction, one cannot expect the majority of Catholics to be truly living the faith, which is why this kind of rampant immorality is not surprising in the least.

Perverts like ex-Cdl. McCarrick and Cdl. Bernadin led the cabal to illegally obtain an indult for the sacrilegious practice of communion in the hand in the United States, undermining both liturgy and doctrine. Go figure.

It's especially the case, however, with the priest.

Notice that many abuse cases date from the 1960s and the number increased through the 1980s. That was exactly the time when the whole notion of the priesthood was undermined and warped from an alter Christus to a celibate Protestant pastor. A man was told he was sacrificing himself for Christ and that his main duty was to live this Sacrifice—that Christ was The Man whose ultimate manliness was to die for us, and he was to imitate this. Fast forward to the council and afterward and the priest was told that he was not essential, and the laity were to do many of his tasks, even in the Mass, and he was a mere presider, and he was to preach and comfort people and help them be better people, and that Jesus gave us the example of how to be kind and good ... but even though you're just a Pastor, you can't marry.

It is no wonder that priests lost the notion of what they were, and so natural that they would start seeking to be, in whatever way they could, like Protestant Pastors. Since they cannot have a wife, they take the next step and turn to children. Logically if you want to avoid the public scandal of pregnancies, where does one turn ... oh, and homosexuality, though a subculture, is gaining acceptance.

Why would it then affect a traditionalist priests who was trained and given that traditional formation? Perhaps because they are taken out of this same world, and no matter how much we think that we traddies are different, we are (like living in a house with a smoker) going to be tainted with the odor of the world, and so many of its temptations.

If the traditionalists have issues—and they do—I think it is because we think ourselves far less influence by the world than we are. We think ourselves safe from this mess, we think we are protected form the diabolical influence that so many poor souls around us are so easily giving into, that we've got this and we can muscle through it ... and that's exactly what the devil wants, because, practically, we throw away God's grace and try to do it all ourselves.
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#39
I'd be equally as bothered if we lived in a world where the NO never existed and the cases of abuse just as rampant. That may seem improbable to many of you, but not to me. The world changed, even if the Church shouldn't. That enters all of us into temptations and disorders of a magnitude that the Church [world] has never seen. Now, you can quibble about the fact that it wouldn't have been as bad but the fact is that we don't know that other than to see things with our Traddy glasses. Better equipped to deal with the world? Sure, I can see that, but people are ultimately complicated enough to make a mess of just about anything. 
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#40
The Sanford priory where Fr Duverger was sent responded to the accusations with more details, and claims that Jacas' evidence given to the SSPX did not evidence any crime or even any sin, and she was told to approach the police if she felt that the SSPX response was inadequate and there was some crime : http://www.sspxflorida.com/en/news-event...tack-57653


Quote:We have learned of an article published recently by a website calling itself “Church Militant,” in which allegations of serious misconduct are made against priests of the Society of Saint Pius X, including priests of Saint Thomas More Priory. Beyond noting that this website has a very public anti-SSPX agenda, it is not our place to address all of the allegations raised in the article. With respect to the allegations made involving our own priests, however, we believe it necessary to affirm the following points:

1) As any properly-educated Catholic knows, priests cannot violate the Seal of the Confessional even to defend themselves from attacks made by penitents. This duty of silence also applies to a priest giving spiritual direction. Thus, any Catholic publishing statements alleged to have been made in these contexts must realize they are attacking someone who cannot defend himself.

2) Outside of information learned through the Confessional or in the course of spiritual direction, the priests of Saint Thomas More are aware of, and fully comply with, their obligation to report allegations of the abuse of minors to the authorities. With respect to allegations involving adult victims, we encourage them to inform law enforcement if they believe they have been the victim of a crime – which is precisely what the accuser of Father Duverger was told.

3) We are not aware of any criminal investigation involving such misconduct, either current or past, directed at any priest of Saint Thomas More Priory – all of whom have, per our policy, received a national and local criminal background check through the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

4) The nature of the allegations of misconduct against Father Duverger has been grossly misrepresented in the article. Voluminous written documentation of the alleged misconduct was provided by the accuser to Father Wegner, which far from revealing any criminal conduct, did not even evidence any sin against purity. It seems that, failing to get the desired affirmation of her narrative from either the authorities of the Society or the civil authorities, this young woman has decided to look for, and not surprisingly found, a sympathetic ear among the Society’s avowed enemies.

While believing that, in view of the very public nature of the attack on our priests, we could not remain completely silent, the faithful should not take this statement as an occasion to satisfy idle curiosity by reading, much less sharing, this scurrilous article.
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