SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups
#67
(04-27-2020, 04:45 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(04-27-2020, 03:43 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: How would I know that my daughters should not be around this man if no one told me?

Well, firstly, he did not attack other girls, but his own. Yes, terrible, and a monster, but his crimes were when he had the power and opportunity. Having dealt as a teacher with these kinds of things (and been trained by experts as part of that teacher training in the basics of these matters), the idea that a crime like this in one environment automatically means it would happen in any is silly and part of the biggest problem in dealing properly with these matters.

Firstly, why would you ever let a older man ingratiate himself with your daughters in any way that could lead to this, whether or not he had a history? Why would a 50-year-old man who was not a woman's father have any access to her for private conversation or the like? Would not normal prudence and decorum protect most people from him offending again?

Quote:Let's see.  If I'm at Mass with my five kids they tend to go off and play sports afterwards, go to the social hall, go to the parking lot to get their gym shoes, go to the bathroom, go to a classroom and hangout with other kids...etc. etc. etc.
So yes, there are plenty of opportunities for some very nice, gentlemanly man to ingratiate himself by asking for help with some packages, or finding a puppy, or a million other ways.

My daughter was standing in line at a museum watching her 4 year old brother and a man came up behind him and felt my little boys genitals.  So yeah....it happens....all the time.  Don't be naieve.


Secondly, what is the problem with being in the church with such a man? He is a sinner. So are we. He is a Catholic. So are we. If he has paid his debt to society through jail or other

Quote:No problem with sinners.  Problem with protecting children.


Absolutely, we need to protect people from such predators, but the question is what accomplishes this and yet is just for both society, the victim and criminal. The death penalty would solve petty theft, too.

Quote:Never suggested any such thing.  Suggested a private reception of the sacraments.


Would you have all criminals and sinners forbidden from the Sacraments? No more Sunday Masses, I guess. The Church does not do that, and never has. She expects repentance, and a real repentance, but when someone is repentant, once they agree to repair for the damage as much as possible, she forgives even the most strict penalties.



Quote:Didn't say anything of the kind.

(04-27-2020, 03:43 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: Sex offenders, especially those who prey on their own children, can be forgiven, but they cannot be rehabilitated!

Depends on what you mean.

If by rehabilitated one means that they can get to a place where, like an alcoholic, they can function normally so long as the things which will lead them to sin are not around them, then yes, every person can be rehabilitated form the worst sins.

If you mean to function as if the sin had never happened—that the alcoholic can go back to moderate drinking—that is impossible for every sinner.

Having sinned we are never the same, and acting like "its forgiven" and that's all there is to it is what will lead all of us back into sin, even if we just commit venial sins.

Quote:Pyschologists will tell you that once someone has crossed such an egregious line with sexual matters and children, they no longer have the boundaries a normal person has and is at risk for the rest of their life for recidivism.


(04-27-2020, 03:43 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: Of course he isn't going to rape anyone in the pew.  Don't be naive.  They prey slowly by grooming with kind gestures and smiles...etc.

Which, if you teach your girls not to warm up to, or accept favors or gifts or attention from men who are not their immediate relatives, then grooming is not an issue here.

When would, sitting in a pew, if people were actually paying attention to the Mass and acting like Catholics, grooming be an issue?

Quote:I made damn sure my daughters knew how to protect themselves and studied marshall arts.  Not everyone is as fortunate to have such training however, especially if they are a single mom dealing with poverty and abuse themselves.  In any case, it's not the child's fault.....EVER!


I know of a similar case elsewhere (not the father but a Brother-in-Law), where the priests did turn in the offender. He confessed to the police, sought help, did his jail time with the priests visiting to give him the Sacraments. After he was released, the court order demanded he stay away from the family, and girls that were harmed, and so the priests allowed him to come to Mass but only with another man who would be his chaperone, and he would leave right away and not stay for conversation or come to social events.

If a man is repentant, he would want to follow the restrictions and part of his long-term penance.

Perhaps that was done in the case you mention, but no one was told. It is easy to spin a lack of information into a lack of care. And simply, we don't know, and neither is it our duty or business to know.

Quote:There are public registries for sex offenders for a reason.  


(04-27-2020, 03:43 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: The priest was accused of sexual misconduct and the response was to send him to a school in France. I don't care if he is guilty or not, this is the worst possible way of handling this case both for the children and for the credibility of the SSPX.

Was that the response, and what is meant by a "school". Most "schools" in the SSPX are at priories, and most priories have schools. In short, it is pretty impossible for a priest to be sent where there isn't a school. Again, easy to spin this.

In many priories the school is not at the same location, and is a distance away, meaning, that a priest could be assigned to a priory with a school (say St Louis, since I know it), but the school is a 30 minute drive away and only some of the priests go there for a short period each day. If a priest were, during an investigation, placed at the priory, he would be easily able to be prevented from accessing a school.

A better question (which is never asked, and I wonder why ...) is was the priest given an active role in the school? Were the accusations credible? 


Was this reassignment a temporary measure to separate him from those he was accused of sinful actions with?

If one stands back and looks at those who are always the loudest in these situations it always conflates all sexual indecency and assault together, and that is simple to simplistic a matter: A priest is accused of sexual innuendo in a conversation with a somewhat crazy 35-year-old woman, and so, be sure he's never allowed to be around 7-year-old boys. He's a pervert!


Quote:That's conjecture.  Have you even read any of the sex abuse cases?  It sounds like you don't believe them.




I'm not defending abuse, but we're terribly influenced by the hedonisic puritanism (really Jansenism) of the world. "Virtue signaling" is the modern term.

Quote:As I said before, whether he was guilty or not the prudent thing to do for the sake of the credibility of the SSPX and for the sake of the children is to place him somewhere without children.  I'm sure with their worldwide spread it's possible.


(04-27-2020, 03:43 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: There is no outpouring of sadness or grief for them, just an attempt to make it all seem as small and trivial as possible.

Such a statement shows your utter lack of objectivity!

Incredible.


Quote:Can you please tell me what a "discreet" amount of abuse is?   One?   10?  

There is no number which could possibly be a "discreet" amount.  

The tone of their defense is incredible!


Instead of trying to look at the facts and see if there are some issues with covering up abuse with objectivity for the sake of protecting children from danger, I'm seeing a great deal of 

---Well it's that Voris---he's the real problem
----Well the numbers are small---"discreet" amount
----Well I'm sure the vocal accusers were crazy and Jansenist
----Well we handled it internally
---Well he was sorry so we sent him to another school

These are all the same excuses that allowed the abuses to proliferate in the NO Church.


If we love the Traditional Mass and the priestly orders who defend it we should want the filth to come to light and be purged and make darn sure the superiors are handling things properly.

And we should show an attitude of outrage at the abuse and have more concern for the feelings, wellbeing and safety of the children than for the predator.

Have we learned nothing?
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Messages In This Thread
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Adventus - 04-22-2020, 04:00 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Adventus - 04-23-2020, 12:31 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Adventus - 04-23-2020, 12:38 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Adventus - 04-23-2020, 02:28 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Adventus - 04-23-2020, 03:22 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by JacksonE - 04-23-2020, 08:12 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Adventus - 04-24-2020, 10:41 AM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by JacksonE - 04-24-2020, 01:20 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Adventus - 04-24-2020, 03:13 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Maximian - 04-27-2020, 07:09 AM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Adventus - 04-27-2020, 11:14 AM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Adventus - 04-24-2020, 05:25 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by piscis - 04-25-2020, 06:17 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by piscis - 04-25-2020, 06:31 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Sacred Heart lover - 04-27-2020, 05:14 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Fionnchu - 04-27-2020, 07:58 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Fionnchu - 04-28-2020, 04:50 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Fionnchu - 04-28-2020, 04:55 PM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by piscis - 04-29-2020, 12:24 AM
SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by RyanPatrick - 05-03-2020, 11:16 AM
RE: SSPX Sex Scandals And Cover Ups - by Te Deum - 05-04-2020, 09:01 PM



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