Divine Mercy Chaplet
#11
(05-07-2020, 01:03 PM)Paul Wrote:
(05-07-2020, 08:45 AM)josh987654321 Wrote: It doesn't, you'll always find the Divine Mercy Image accompanied by the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts. It actually completes the Sacred Heart, one shows the pierced and inflamed heart and the other shows the blood and water that gushed forth as a fount of mercy for us.

Maybe in the churches you've visited, but I've seen the Divine Mercy image by itself a lot. And do you hear Catholics talking about the Sacred Heart anymore? Most don't, but the love Divine Mercy.


(05-07-2020, 08:45 AM)josh987654321 Wrote: I find this such a ridiculous objection, since we will find God's mercy more then anything else all throughout the Scriptures and history, His very Passion and Death testify to this truth, as St Paul says, indeed one will hardly die for a good man, but what proves God loves us is that while we were still sinners He died for us. We could easily say, indeed what proves God's greatest attribute is Mercy, is that while we were still sinners, He died for us.


And nobody figured that out until two Popes ago? The traditional attitude is penance for our sins, go to confession when you fail, pray for the conversion of others to the faith, and and for the dead that they may get through Purgatory. Just look at the traditional funeral Mass, with its black vestments and the Dies iræ. All that's largely gone since Vatican II, and the new funeral Mass is almost always a canonisation of the deceased.

There's a fine line between reminding people of God's mercy (which we should remember, lest we fall into despair) and turning it all into a Church of Nice, where everyone's saved (except maybe Hitler, but maybe he repented while he was shooting himself). I think for a lot of trads, the Divine Mercy devotion is just too nice, and they don't like it for that reason.
I posted this article in another thread. Father David Nix did a good job with this.

https://padreperegrino.org/2019/04/div-mercy/
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#12
(05-07-2020, 01:03 PM)Paul Wrote: Maybe in the churches you've visited, but I've seen the Divine Mercy image by itself a lot. And do you hear Catholics talking about the Sacred Heart anymore? Most don't, but the love Divine Mercy.

I've never seen the Divine Mercy image without also seeing the Sacred & Immaculate hearts. The Sacred Heart is the same and emphasizes the Mercy and Love of God too.

(05-07-2020, 01:03 PM)Paul Wrote: And nobody figured that out until two Popes ago?


You think the Sacred Heart devotion was easily accepted? no way, the King of France rejected it and it didn't get anywhere in the Church, it wasn't until all of Christendom lied in ruins over the French Revolution that they finally heeded it. Look at all that had to befall mankind before they would heed the Sacred Heart devotion (And the world has NEVER recovered from that lie ever since).

(05-07-2020, 01:03 PM)Paul Wrote: There's a fine line between reminding people of God's mercy (which we should remember, lest we fall into despair) and turning it all into a Church of Nice

The problem is these people have never read St Faustina's diary. Furthermore, look at the Divine Mercy Image itself, it's not a feel good look of you can do no wrong, no, it's a very harsh look emphasizing the seriousness of sin and at the same time the infinite mercy of God for the repentant.

Those who don't speak of Hell or think nobody or very few are there, are in direct contradiction to the devotion, which St Faustina says she visited so that no one can claim the excuse that they don't know what Hell is like or that nobody has ever been there, and she said the most common attribute among the damned was that they didn't believe in such a place.

(05-07-2020, 01:03 PM)Paul Wrote: I think for a lot of trads, the Divine Mercy devotion is just too nice, and they don't like it for that reason.

x2, but unfortunately this is just a case of ignorance on both sides of the aisle.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
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#13
(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: .

I'll get to that after breakfast, but as for the idea that Our Lord blessed Poland and then the Nazi's invaded is a total lie lol, in fact in her Diary Christ specifically says if Poland doesn't turn back to God they will suffer greatly (something to that effect, I'll find it after breakfast).

God Bless You
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#14
(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: [Image: F072_Mercy.jpg]
A typical Divine Mercy image remindful of a whirling dervish

You know people can and do mock any and all imagery of Christ, His Mother and the Saints? I've read just as many silly comments about all the others too.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: So, Pius XII put the writings of Sr. Faustina on the Index of Prohibited Books. That meant that he considered that their content would lead Catholics astray or in the wrong direction.

Yet we have Pope John Paul II and it was approved by the Church, so if you want to go down that track, then why haven't the gates of hell prevailed if a false private revelation became Church approved and spread throughout the whole One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church? Furthermore, as I've read these were faulty translations and you haven't said 'why' it was  condemned by them... a text or verse.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: 1. There is no evidence of the supernatural origin of these revelations.

Neither the Sacred Heart..... after the revolution.... how about now?

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: 2. No feast of Divine Mercy should be instituted. Why? Because if it is based on apparitions that are not clearly coming from God, then it would be rash and temerarious to institute a feast in the Church based on something that is a false apparition.

lol he seems so sure of himself, still failed to point to anything to say 'clearly not coming from God'.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: Now, you have all seen this image, even if in passing, and you would know and recognize it. It shows a strange picture of Jesus that makes me uneasy. I cannot really tell you why. I do not like it. I don't like the face, I don't like the gesture, I don't like the posture, I don't like anything. This was my first impression of this image. I don't want it around because it is, for lack of a better term, creepy to me when I look at it.

Well I'm convinced, subjectivism... what could go wrong? lol

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: The image shows multicolored rays, I think they are red, white and blue, coming from His chest region - no heart, just these rays. You have all seen this. Well, that was the image that was forbidden to be published or spread.

LOL "I think"?? talk about disingenuous. Everyone knows full well it is the Blood and Water that gushed forth from the Heart of Jesus pierced with a lance.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: Two Popes strongly warned the faithful of a danger in this devotion.

Yet you haven't listed a text from the Diary.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: Principal error: It presents an unconditional mercy

lol no it doesn't.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: Let me present you with a parallel thought.
Above, a majestic Jesus with the halo of divinity and a well-defined Sacred Heart gives a clear blessing; below, a worker-like Jesus without the proper halo or a heart makes a gesture more like a "hello" than a blessing

You do realize that there are many different Sacred Heart Images? And St Margaret Mary Alacoque was only instructed with the Sacred Heart, Crown of Thorns, Cross etc not with the halo of divinity in your particular image? Those were added to the image by others who saw ways to improve it. Indeed both images were created by man but the graces contained are in the Sacred Heart and the Blood and Water, not what kind of face the painter (who didn't see Christ) tried best to re-create.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: we must make reparation. We should always do penance for our sins and make various kinds of reparation.

So then what of the Prodigal Son? .... No, you'll find all that was needed was repentance, then while the son was still a long way off, the Father ran out to meet him.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: It preaches that we can expect an unconditional mercy with no price to be paid whatsoever, with no obligations whatsoever. This is not the message of Christ.

Sure, so the Prodigal Son?.... The King forgiving the debtors etc etc?. What does it mean to forgive a debt?.... No his debt was forgiven... the debtor was only jailed because he refused to show an ounce of that same mercy to his neighbor and thus it was reinstated.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: The central error of the Divine Mercy is that it promises lots of spiritual rewards with no requirement of penance, no mention of reparation, no mention of any condition.

You'd better rip the Prodigal Son out of the bible then.

I'll get to the quoted versus later.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless
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#15
(05-07-2020, 07:48 PM)josh987654321 Wrote: I'll get to that after breakfast, but as for the idea that Our Lord blessed Poland and then the Nazi's invaded is a total lie lol, in fact in her Diary Christ specifically says if Poland doesn't turn back to God they will suffer greatly (something to that effect, I'll find it after breakfast).

St Faustina's Diary.

July 9, 1937
I often pray for Poland, but I see that God is very angry with it because of its ingratitude. I exert all the strength of my soul to defend it. I constantly remind God of the promises of His mercy. When I see His anger, I throw myself trustingly into the abyss of His mercy, and I plunge all Poland in it, and then He cannot use His justice. My country, how much you cost me! There is no day in which I do not pray for you. (Diary, 1188)

January 25, 1938
I saw the anger of God hanging heavy over Poland. And now I see that if God were to visit our country with the greatest chastisements, that would still be great mercy because, for such grave transgressions, He could punish us with eternal annihilation. I was paralyzed with fear when the Lord lifted the veil a little for me. Now I see clearly that chosen souls keep the world in existence to fulfill the measure [of justice]. (Diary, 1533)
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#16
I have never been into this devotion. Some of the diary entries are a bit saccharine, like "Tell aching mankind to snuggle close to My Merciful Heart." Not sure if it's a translation issue. All I can picture is grabbing a sacred heart plushy out of a prize claw machine and squeezing the dear life out of it.
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#17
(05-07-2020, 08:41 PM)josh987654321 Wrote:
(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: [Image: F072_Mercy.jpg]
A typical Divine Mercy image remindful of a whirling dervish

You know people can and do mock any and all imagery of Christ, His Mother and the Saints? I've read just as many silly comments about all the others too.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: So, Pius XII put the writings of Sr. Faustina on the Index of Prohibited Books. That meant that he considered that their content would lead Catholics astray or in the wrong direction.

Yet we have Pope John Paul II and it was approved by the Church, so if you want to go down that track, then why haven't the gates of hell prevailed if a false private revelation became Church approved and spread throughout the whole One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church? Furthermore, as I've read these were faulty translations and you haven't said 'why' it was  condemned by them... a text or verse.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: 1. There is no evidence of the supernatural origin of these revelations.

Neither the Sacred Heart..... after the revolution.... how about now?

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: 2. No feast of Divine Mercy should be instituted. Why? Because if it is based on apparitions that are not clearly coming from God, then it would be rash and temerarious to institute a feast in the Church based on something that is a false apparition.

lol he seems so sure of himself, still failed to point to anything to say 'clearly not coming from God'.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: Now, you have all seen this image, even if in passing, and you would know and recognize it. It shows a strange picture of Jesus that makes me uneasy. I cannot really tell you why. I do not like it. I don't like the face, I don't like the gesture, I don't like the posture, I don't like anything. This was my first impression of this image. I don't want it around because it is, for lack of a better term, creepy to me when I look at it.

Well I'm convinced, subjectivism... what could go wrong? lol

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: The image shows multicolored rays, I think they are red, white and blue, coming from His chest region - no heart, just these rays. You have all seen this. Well, that was the image that was forbidden to be published or spread.

LOL "I think"?? talk about disingenuous. Everyone knows full well it is the Blood and Water that gushed forth from the Heart of Jesus pierced with a lance.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: Two Popes strongly warned the faithful of a danger in this devotion.

Yet you haven't listed a text from the Diary.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: Principal error: It presents an unconditional mercy

lol no it doesn't.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: Let me present you with a parallel thought.
Above, a majestic Jesus with the halo of divinity and a well-defined Sacred Heart gives a clear blessing; below, a worker-like Jesus without the proper halo or a heart makes a gesture more like a "hello" than a blessing

You do realize that there are many different Sacred Heart Images? And St Margaret Mary Alacoque was only instructed with the Sacred Heart, Crown of Thorns, Cross etc not with the halo of divinity in your particular image? Those were added to the image by others who saw ways to improve it. Indeed both images were created by man but the graces contained are in the Sacred Heart and the Blood and Water, not what kind of face the painter (who didn't see Christ) tried best to re-create.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: we must make reparation. We should always do penance for our sins and make various kinds of reparation.

So then what of the Prodigal Son? .... No, you'll find all that was needed was repentance, then while the son was still a long way off, the Father ran out to meet him.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: It preaches that we can expect an unconditional mercy with no price to be paid whatsoever, with no obligations whatsoever. This is not the message of Christ.

Sure, so the Prodigal Son?.... The King forgiving the debtors etc etc?. What does it mean to forgive a debt?.... No his debt was forgiven... the debtor was only jailed because he refused to show an ounce of that same mercy to his neighbor and thus it was reinstated.

(05-07-2020, 09:30 AM)CopiosaApudEumRedemptio Wrote: The central error of the Divine Mercy is that it promises lots of spiritual rewards with no requirement of penance, no mention of reparation, no mention of any condition.

You'd better rip the Prodigal Son out of the bible then.

I'll get to the quoted versus later.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless


Josh,

You are addressing me in your response as if I wrote this response, did you miss the pieces where the original sources were cited?

The article answers the OPs question directly and specifically. I happen to agree with this article but didn't do the research nor do I claim to have the theological background to make the determinations in the article.

In order to get your questions addressed why don't you direct them to the author, here is the contact information from the the original article in The Angelus.

"Fr. Peter Scott was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1988. After assignments as seminary professor, US District Superior, and Rector of Holy Cross Seminary in Goulburn, Australia, he is presently Headmaster of Our Lady of Mount Carmel Academy in Wilmot, Ontario, Canada. Those wishing answers may please send their questions to Q & A in care of Angelus Press, 2915 Forest Ave., Kansas City, MO 64109."
"There is nothing more pleasing to God, than to see a soul who patiently and serenely bears whatever crosses it is sent; this is how love is made, by putting lover and loved one on the same level. . . A soul who loves Jesus Christ desires to be treated the way Christ was treated-desires to be poor, despised and humiliated."

St Alphonsus Ligouri
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