The Holy Father is calling for prayer today. And he should be obeyed.
#61
(05-17-2020, 12:20 AM)Paul Wrote:
(05-17-2020, 12:06 AM)LionHippo Wrote: If the Catholic Church just heavily repeated calls for repentance, "no salvation outside the Church," put down other religions as "idolatry," etc., the fact is, it would come across as very arrogant an unappealing.  Who would be receptive to that type of message today?

That doesn't make those things any less true, or "no such thing as sin", "everyone goes to heaven", and "all religions are good" true. The Pope doesn't get to just make up doctrine and create the Church of Nice.

(05-17-2020, 12:06 AM)LionHippo Wrote: Not all Muslims approve child marriage and paedophilia.  Again, if someone is practicing something like that, it is not charity.

Then they're bad Muslims, because Mohammed is supposed to be the perfect example of how a man should act. Muslims who reject jihad are no different than Catholics who use birth control - except, of course, one is the true faith and one isn't.
I agree that it doesn't make them any less true.  But a heavy-handed approach to evangelization does not seem very effective.  People need to be guided and invited to the truth, not have it forced upon them.  Pope Francis is not "making things up."  He is attempting to evalgelize the way he feels is most effective at this time in history.

Ok, so if they are bad Muslims, and reject those types of teachings, yet still practice their Muslim prayers but with genuine goodwill for fellow man, then they are at least attempting to project true charity.
Reply
#62
(05-17-2020, 12:55 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: The 'Church of Nice' which Francis is trying to create is not the Catholic Church, founded by Christ, and outside which there is no salvation, and no believing Catholic thinks it is.

The Holy Father is not trying to create a "church of nice."  He more keenly recognizes the reality of life, lived situations, and with the Holy Spirit has bravely guided the Church into an age of reaching out fearlessly to the rest of the world.
Reply
#63
I wish I thought you were being sarcastic, but it's pretty obvious that you actually believe the anti-Catholic BS that Francis is peddling. I have to ask why you're on a Catholic forum, let alone a Traditional Catholic one, the members of which tend to be fairly well educated and who actually believe the Catholic Faith. You should have known even before you started this thread that the overwhelming majority of the members here don't buy Francis's snake oil and are not going to deny Christ, and join his 'Human Fraternity', Masonic religion. We are Catholics and we will remain Catholic. If you were a new or recently joined member I would assume you were trolling, but you've been around long enough that I'm reasonably certain that's not it. So why would someone who claims to be a Traditional Catholic be shilling for the Masons?

From Edward Pentin:

Italian Freemasonry Magazine Strongly Endorses Pope Francis’ Human Fraternity Document
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
Reply
#64
(05-16-2020, 09:13 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: Josh, we have our disagreements, but thank you for standing up for the Catholic Faith against the modernist, universalist, gnostic, Freemasonic, One World Religion that Francis is pushing and that is being promoted in this thread!

x2 And without being here I would never have known of that Assisi abomination with St Pope John Paul II, makes my heart sink so much and so badly that he did such a thing, as it instantly discredits the good that he did. I am convinced he is a Saint but I'll certainly pray for him and I believe he would deeply regret such abominable acts (incl the Koran text kissing etc).

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
Reply
#65
(05-16-2020, 09:19 PM)LionHippo Wrote: Not all Muslims approve child marriage and paedophilia.  Again, if someone is practicing something like that, it is not charity.

lol c'mon mate, who's fooling who? That's like sayin' "not all Catholics disagree with divorce and remarriage." 

(05-16-2020, 09:19 PM)LionHippo Wrote: I'm not sure what part of the Pope's prayer request is so confusing.
 
I agree, I'm not sure what part of idolatry is so confusing.

(05-16-2020, 09:19 PM)LionHippo Wrote: It was a call for everyone to pray according to their beliefs.
 
Like I said, Christ told us to pray like this "Our Father, who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name...." he most certainly did not tell people to continuing praying according to their own beliefs, heck if that's the case why did He even become man? Why do we even have a Gospel if doing it according to our own beliefs was fine? Shoulda just said you guys are doing fine, I think I'll stay up here lol.

(05-16-2020, 09:19 PM)LionHippo Wrote: He didn't command Catholics to go to mosques or synagogues to pray, or to pray to other gods.  And what good is just commanding a non-Christian to pray to Christ?  It was basically a call for people to pray according to their beliefs.

Yea like I said, so if God heeds their prayers, he confirms lies and demons.

(05-16-2020, 09:19 PM)LionHippo Wrote: It is actually refreshing to hear that the call to prayer included Hindus and Buddhists.
 
Crazy.

(05-16-2020, 09:19 PM)LionHippo Wrote: In other words, even those outside of the professed Abrahamic faiths were included in the call to prayer and fraternity.  This again reflects keen thinking on the part of Pope Francis, displaying the utmost courage and leadership during this time.  Who aside from the Holy Father commands the type of respect so as to call the entire world to prayer?  Catholics should be rejoicing that we have a visionary in the Chair of Peter.

Satan was the first 'visionary' thinking he knew better then God.

(05-16-2020, 09:19 PM)LionHippo Wrote: The concept of a "jealous God" may sound good in some theological arguments, but is a very unappealing way to convert people to the faith.
 
I know right, a jealous wife or husband who does not accept any other sexual partner(s) is not a very appealing thing to the promiscuous.

(05-16-2020, 09:19 PM)LionHippo Wrote: Nobody is attracted to a "jealous God."
 
I know right, nobody is attracted to a "jealous wife" either, c'mon, guy's gotta be a guy ya know? lol

(05-16-2020, 09:19 PM)LionHippo Wrote: Love and mercy must be at the forefront of evangelization.  Such a description of God does not register with the modern culture or those outside the Catholic faith.

Christ is not of this world, the prince of this world is Satan, your free to pick which one you want. My brother lamented the other day with heretical documents like Amoris Laetitia saying "where is a St John the Baptist when ya need him".... yea they killed him, and a St Thomas Moore... yea they killed him too... God in the flesh (Christ)? Yea... sorry.

Jesus to St Faustina Wrote:I will not delude you with prospects of peace and consolations; on the contrary, prepare for great battles. Know that you are now on a great stage where all heaven and earth are watching you. Fight like a knight, so that I can reward you. Do not be unduly fearful, because you are not alone. (Diary, 1760)

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
[-] The following 1 user Likes josh987654321's post:
  • jovan66102
Reply
#66
(05-17-2020, 01:42 AM)LionHippo Wrote: I agree that it doesn't make them any less true.  But a heavy-handed approach to evangelization does not seem very effective.  People need to be guided and invited to the truth, not have it forced upon them.  Pope Francis is not "making things up."  He is attempting to evalgelize the way he feels is most effective at this time in history.

Telling Catholics to pray in solidarity with those praying to false gods is wrong. Why can't he just ask Catholics to pray? Especially appropriate for today, since this Sunday's Gospel tells us to ask the Father for whatever we need in Jesus' name. And you don't evangelise by continually sending the message that there's no need to be Catholic, that God wills all religions, and that atheists go to heaven because they were good people.

If all that the Church is about is being nice to people, what use is it? We're called to love our neighbour and help the poor, but the Church isn't just another charity. It's to help us save our souls and get to heaven, and loving our neighbour is the second commandment, after love of God. We don't love God by telling people to pray to demons and telling Catholics to pray in harmony with them. Or does it not matter what he tells Catholics, as long as he's being nice to non-Catholics? Kind of like a man who gives away so much of his income to the homeless that his own children starve. That's not charity.
[-] The following 2 users Like Paul's post:
  • josh987654321, jovan66102
Reply
#67
Is Coronavirus the ‘Revenge of Nature,’ As Pope Francis Says?

A theological analysis of the pantheistic paganism behind the 'Human Fraternity', Masonic One World Religion that Francis is promoting.

From LifeSiteNews
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
Reply
#68
I'd pray and fast for the Holy Father's right intentions. I'm sorry I didn't this Thursday. Next time, if there is one.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
[-] The following 1 user Likes JacafamalaRedux's post:
  • josh987654321
Reply
#69
(05-17-2020, 02:42 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: I wish I thought you were being sarcastic, but it's pretty obvious that you actually believe the anti-Catholic BS that Francis is peddling. I have to ask why you're on a Catholic forum, let alone a Traditional Catholic one, the members of which tend to be fairly well educated and who actually believe the Catholic Faith. You should have known even before you started this thread that the overwhelming majority of the members here don't buy Francis's snake oil and are not going to deny Christ, and join his 'Human Fraternity', Masonic religion. We are Catholics and we will remain Catholic. If you were a new or recently joined member I would assume you were trolling, but you've been around long enough that I'm reasonably certain that's not it. So why would someone who claims to be a Traditional Catholic be shilling for the Masons?

From Edward Pentin:

Italian Freemasonry Magazine Strongly Endorses Pope Francis’ Human Fraternity Document
 I have been on this forum for a couple years.  Obviously, many of you have been on here for much longer.  I respect everyone’s opinions on here.  I have learned a lot from this site and the members on here, and recognize that this site and forum are a “refuge” from Catholic Answers Forums, and even from the “mainstream” Catholic Church.  But I know that the members on here have a genuine love for the Church, and perceive certain errors in the modern Church. 

Although I used to consider myself more a “Traditionalist,” I no longer use that label. When used by a non-Traditionalist, the term is a pejorative, and when used by a self-confessed Traditionalist, it has connotations of rebellion against the rest of the Church, even an almost tribal association.  At least that’s how I see it. One is a faithful Catholic or not.  There is no Church-defined definition of “traditionalist,” and when anyone claims to put together a list designating what practices deem one worthy of the title, to me that enters the realm of a “man made” listing of preferences.

When I first joined this site, I would visit many of the “Traditionalist” blogs and websites daily, listen to the podcasts, etc.  I as well wanted a return to “Tradition,” a more widespread use of the Latin Mass, etc.  After a while, though, I came to realize that this was never going to happen.  The supposed growth of TLM parishes and vocations will never catch up to the rest of the Church – that’s just reality.  To me, it’s a distraction from the spiritual life to constantly pine for a way of life in the Church that is never going to return.  It was not an easy realization to come to, but I am at peace with it now. 

I really don’t think God demands the use of the Latin Mass, or a method of evangelization stuck in the Middle Ages.  I do not subscribe to the notion that the Latin Mass, and “Traditionalism” in general, exists in some type of remnant form, as some type of test of the faithful to hold on for dear life until it is all again restored.  I think that turns God into some type of devious game master, on the one hand demanding obedience of the faithful to the Church and the Pope, yet on the other hand setting up traps and tests requiring the faithful to question and doubt the Church.  Then along with all of this, suffering patiently for a return to a particular form of liturgy and certain external practices, almost to the point where one’s faith life can be entirely consumed with constantly “fighting” and “worrying” about a return to a being of the Church which is, for all intents and purposes, bygone. This way of thinking is a total distraction of trying to actually live the way of life demanded by Christ.  It reduces the faith to a perpetual investigation of what documents can be cobbled together to demonstrate what “the Church” really is and teaches. One can only hear the phrase, “it’s an infallible institution run by fallible humans” so many times.  Either the Church has failed, or it exists today the way it is intended to be.  It just doesn’t add up at a certain point, having to pray to an omnipotent God for a restoration of His very own Church. 

Reading the New Testament, one naturally senses that the “good news” of the Gospel resonated with the first Christians as a way of life, a change from one state of life to another.  Nowhere is there a sense that people were converted by a particular form of liturgy or certain devotions.  That’s not to say there aren’t warnings of eternal damnation in the Gospels or the New Testament, but infractions against charity are more often presented as what leads one away from Christ, away from the entrance to the narrow gate.  After the last couple years on Traditionalist websites and blogs, I saw a lot of “warnings” from the Scripture and private revelation; a lot of quote-mining from saints and encyclicals, but not much in the way of living out the beatitudes or recognizing that the world today is not receptive to the methods of the past.  I was guilty of this way of thinking, too.  We call the Gospel “good news,” but reading and listening to Traditionalists for a while, it seems like the Church is nothing but “bad news.”  Also, allegiance to the Pope is one of the defining things that makes one “Catholic,” yet here, as evidenced by this thread, we just have an almost total aversion to anything the Pope says or does.  If the faith is just a recitation of old councils or encyclicals that are applied to deem everything in the current Church erroneous, then the faith is pretty much dead.  I was also at one time averse to many of the things that Pope Francis said and did, but to be quite honest I have grown to respect him much more.  I think his emphasis on mercy makes many people uncomfortable, and his willingness to reach out to other types of people and faiths makes some doubt the truth of the Catholic Church. 

So again, has the Church failed, or is it supposed to be the way it is?  I’ll just go with that it’s the way it’s supposed to be for now.  I follow the commandments, try to live out the beatitudes as best as I can, and just concentrate on prayer.  Constantly wishing and fighting for the former ways of the Church just is not worth the effort to me and is a huge distraction from the spiritual life.  I don’t say these things to be argumentative, because like I said, I would have agreed with the major talking points of Traditionalism even fairly recently. I'll assume that God's Church is the way He wants it, and only He understands why. And it was not easy to let those things go and move on.  But to be quite honest, I am glad I have put those distractions behind.  I pray for the Holy Father's intentions and that lost souls come to the Church every day.
Reply
#70
(05-17-2020, 04:20 PM)LionHippo Wrote: I have been on this forum for a couple years.  Obviously, many of you have been on here for much longer.  I respect everyone’s opinions on here.
 

I like this forum too and am glad your here, because I could never have this conversation with you on CAF, I would be banned so fast and they all just become echo chambers.

(05-17-2020, 04:20 PM)LionHippo Wrote: Although I used to consider myself more a “Traditionalist,” I no longer use that label. When used by a non-Traditionalist, the term is a pejorative, and when used by a self-confessed Traditionalist, it has connotations of rebellion against the rest of the Church, even an almost tribal association.  At least that’s how I see it. One is a faithful Catholic or not.  There is no Church-defined definition of “traditionalist,” and when anyone claims to put together a list designating what practices deem one worthy of the title, to me that enters the realm of a “man made” listing of preferences.

Well, I only know how to make the sign of the Cross in Latin (Only Latin I know) and I attend the NO (only one available). I am in rebellion though, within myself when I wake, within the heresies and errors within Christ's Church and outside His Church. The real travesty of the modernist changes was the reverence toward Christs real presence in the Holy Eucharist that was lost, and as for Latin, it's no coincidence that a universal language would enable a universal Church to greatly thrive, it meant you could go anywhere in the world and as a Priest say Mass or as a layman attend Mass and be in complete union from those you know nothing about and speak not a word of the same language you do as their native tongue.

Imitation of Christ - Thomas A Kempis Wrote:SO LONG as we live in this world we cannot escape suffering and temptation. Whence it is written in Job: "The life of man upon earth is a warfare." 3 Everyone, therefore, must guard against temptation and must watch in prayer lest the devil, who never sleeps but goes about seeking whom he may devour, find occasion to deceive him.

(05-17-2020, 04:20 PM)LionHippo Wrote: I as well wanted a return to “Tradition,” a more widespread use of the Latin Mass, etc.  After a while, though, I came to realize that this was never going to happen.

I was told this often at CAF in 2016 about Trump, there was absolutely no way he could win apparently, and truth be told, I thought they could be right, but there was clearly one candidate who wanted to advance the mass murder and genocide of the most innocent among a host of other persecutions and the other promised to appoint pro-life judges, so no matter how dire it looked, I had to try, there was no other option.

(05-17-2020, 04:20 PM)LionHippo Wrote: It just doesn’t add up at a certain point, having to pray to an omnipotent God for a restoration of His very own Church.

Was St Francis of Assisi not told to 'Rebuild my Church' why did he have to rebuild it? Nobody at Vatican II nor Bergoglio were told to 'Rebuild my Church' yet relying on themselves and other fallible men criticizing the Church they proceeded to do so.

Catechism of the Catholic Church Wrote:The Church's ultimate trial

675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. 574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.

(05-17-2020, 04:20 PM)LionHippo Wrote: Reading the New Testament, one naturally senses that the “good news” of the Gospel resonated with the first Christians as a way of life, a change from one state of life to another.  Nowhere is there a sense that people were converted by a particular form of liturgy or certain devotions.
 

What about St Paul's letter saying to eat and drink worthily of the Body and Blood of Christ? etc.

(05-17-2020, 04:20 PM)LionHippo Wrote: but not much in the way of living out the beatitudes or recognizing that the world today is not receptive to the methods of the past.
 

I always find this ironic, because I bet those who say it cannot quote the Private Revelations of St Margaret Mary Alacoque of the Sacred Heart for instance, nor any other Church fathers or Saints. Then they say the methods of the past don't work, yet the methods of the past have been scraped from the history books and never tried.

(05-17-2020, 04:20 PM)LionHippo Wrote: I think his emphasis on mercy makes many people uncomfortable, and his willingness to reach out to other types of people and faiths makes some doubt the truth of the Catholic Church. 

I think it's no coincidence the Divine Mercy was given to the world before Francis, for we now see the heresies and evils that would be spread through false mercy that is no mercy at all.

(05-17-2020, 04:20 PM)LionHippo Wrote: I follow the commandments, try to live out the beatitudes as best as I can, and just concentrate on prayer.
 

Saints, Prayer, Spiritual reading will no doubt help you, especially when you look at the lives of the Saints, and you'll see they'd be mortified at much of what Francis is doing and bore witness to the exact opposite, St John the Baptist and St Thomas Moore were murdered for upholding the indissolubility of marriage, if only they had documents like Amoris laetitia they could have lived. Thou shalt not commit idolatry etc etc.

(05-17-2020, 04:20 PM)LionHippo Wrote: I pray for the Holy Father's intentions and that lost souls come to the Church every day.

Archbishop Fulton J Sheen Wrote:Nowhere in Sacred Scripture do we find warrant for the popular myth of the Devil as a buffoon who is dressed like the first “red.” Rather is he described as an angel fallen from heaven, as “the Prince of this world,” whose business it is to tell us that there is no other world. His logic is simple: if there is no heaven there is no hell; if there is no hell, then there is no sin; if there is no sin, then there is no judge, and if there is no judgment then evil is good and good is evil.

But above all these descriptions, Our Lord tells us that he will be so much like Himself that he would deceive even the elect–and certainly no devil ever seen in picture books could deceive even the elect.

Catechism of the Catholic Church Wrote:The Church's ultimate trial

675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. 574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
[-] The following 1 user Likes josh987654321's post:
  • jovan66102
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)