“Is the SSPX in schism? YES. Find out why” -I've made a video, grateful for feedback
#21
(05-25-2020, 07:59 PM)Atanamir Wrote: Then you need to read more about it, read Ratzinger more (and closely), and listen to Canon Hesse.

I guess Hesse is not common fare around here?  Again, I say, what the heck happened to this place?

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Funny because Ratzinger was one of the fathers of the council and a NO himself.

Fr Hesse is respected and liked here, as are other traditionalists.

Again, just because you shouldn't post "All NO heretics" doesn't mean FE promotes Fr James Martin SJ.

Stop with the hysteronics.
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#22
Can I please just point out that the OP is really speaking rather charitably with his position?
Yes, certainly, people are going to disagree on this matter.
But, to be completely fair, it’s understandable that people are confused about the status of the SSPX, as there seems to be quite a variety of opinions amongst Traditionalists.
(If there’s any error in what I say in the following, please listen to an orthodox Catholic priest or bishop, and not me).
I think most would, at the very least, admit that the SSPX is made up of very good, solid men, who are seeking to do the right thing. I think many would also agree that the SSPX is within the Church.
It seems, perhaps, that what could use some clarification from the Church is the SSPX’s status on the public (and private) celebration of the Mass, and their public ministry, in general.
I think it’s a more complex topic than I can personally navigate.

I just pray the day soon comes when the Church states: “The SSPX are within the Church, and their Sacraments are valid and licit, and any Catholic may attend their Masses and receive their Sacraments in completely good conscience”.

As laymen, I don’t think we should be trying to “figure out the canonical status” of things, as we’re simply not competent to do so. (I’m certainly not anyway).
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#23
(05-25-2020, 08:04 PM)austenbosten Wrote:
(05-25-2020, 07:59 PM)Atanamir Wrote: Then you need to read more about it, read Ratzinger more (and closely), and listen to Canon Hesse.

I guess Hesse is not common fare around here?  Again, I say, what the heck happened to this place?

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Funny because Ratzinger was one of the fathers of the council and a NO himself.

Fr Hesse is respected and liked here, as are other traditionalists.

Again, just because you shouldn't post "All NO heretics" doesn't mean FE promotes Fr James Martin SJ.

Stop with the hysteronics.
I mentioned Ratzinger because I have no idea now whether FE is full indult only or full blown Neocatholic. Not sure whose opinion you'd respect more now, Ratzinger's or Hesse's.

Why don't you stop being the self-appointed speech police? Because honestly the lack of openness to discussion coming from you is what creeps me out the most, and this is the third time I have been back on here and experienced something similar.

There was a very different, welcoming, and open forum atmosphere here ten years ago.

Apparently this is an Indultnazis lair now. Seriously, what in the utter heck happened to this place, and do I really want to know?

I don't think I do.

VALETE






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#24
(05-25-2020, 07:44 PM)Atanamir Wrote: I didn't realize that FE had abandoned even the positions of Archbishop LeFrebvre himself.

1. If you're going to reference Msgr Lefebvre, it might be good to spell his name correctly.

2. Msgr Lefebvre never held the position that the Novus Ordo represents an heretical sect, nor would he have ever condoned anyone saying such a thing. He criticized, correctly, an heretical spirit in the New Theology which underpinned the Second Vatican Council, and held that there were errors in the conciliar documents. He would never have tolerated anyone labeling the whole of those Catholics not part of Tradition as heretics.
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#25
(05-25-2020, 08:14 PM)Atanamir Wrote: Apparently this is an Indultnazis lair now.  Seriously, what in the utter heck happened to this place, and do I really want to know?

I don't think I do.

VALETE

Plenty of SSPX supporters here, but none with such a vile attitude.

Good riddance.
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#26
(05-25-2020, 08:09 PM)FultonFan Wrote: As laymen, I don’t think we should be trying to “figure out the canonical status” of things, as we’re simply not competent to do so.

The Holy See has been clear that the SSPX matter is an internal matter, it is a matter for the CDF , not the Congregation of the Propaganda (which it would be if it were schismatic).

We ought not judge other Catholics more harshly than the Church does, and the Church, officially, has said again and again, the SSPX matter is not one of actual schism.
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#27
(05-25-2020, 08:23 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(05-25-2020, 08:09 PM)FultonFan Wrote: As laymen, I don’t think we should be trying to “figure out the canonical status” of things, as we’re simply not competent to do so.

The Holy See has been clear that the SSPX matter is an internal matter, it is a matter for the CDF , not the Congregation of the Propaganda (which it would be if it were schismatic).

We ought not judge other Catholics more harshly than the Church does, and the Church, officially, has said again and again, the SSPX matter is not one of actual schism.

Point taken.
I should be honest that I barely know what I’m talking about in any of this, so, anyone reading what I write, please take it with a grain of salt. Sadly, I’m still learning the fundamentals on most things, and things I’d thought I knew, I actually don’t know at all.
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#28
Quite a bold first post for "humilityandpatience."

Not much humility exercised in posting about such a topic in here as a first post, and perhaps you should have had the patience to read through previous threads to get the lay of the land of this forum.
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#29
(05-25-2020, 08:09 PM)FultonFan Wrote: Can I please just point out that the OP is really speaking rather charitably with his position?


I'm sorry, but I don't think it's particularly charitable to come on the forum and make your first post an attack on the SSPX, accusing them of schism, when the Church has repeatedly made it clear that the Society is NOT in schism.

And, for the OP, and any other newbies who don't know. I am not an 'SSPXer'. In almost 40 years as a Catholic, I have confessed once to an SSPX Priest and I have attended a total of one SSPX Mass. When I could, I normally attended either an EC Divine Liturgy or an FSSP Mass, but since I no longer drive, I regularly attend the NO. Thank God I live in the Diocese of Lincoln!
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#30
(05-25-2020, 08:17 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(05-25-2020, 07:44 PM)Atanamir Wrote: I didn't realize that FE had abandoned even the positions of Archbishop LeFrebvre himself.

1. If you're going to reference Msgr Lefebvre, it might be good to spell his name correctly.

2. Msgr Lefebvre never held the position that the Novus Ordo represents an heretical sect, nor would he have ever condoned anyone saying such a thing. He criticized, correctly, an heretical spirit in the New Theology which underpinned the Second Vatican Council, and held that there were errors in the conciliar documents. He would never have tolerated anyone labeling the whole of those Catholics not part of Tradition as heretics.

What is it about today? First we have a first post attacking the SSPX for being in schism, in spite of what the Church has consistently said, than we have another newbie attacking us all as 'indultnazis'??
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
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