Sedes, are non-Sedes saved? (and vice versa)
#1
Hello everyone and God Bless, I hope all of you are well amidst these times. 

2 posts ago, when I asked about this Forum's stance on Sedevacantism, I discovered that much more people are Sedes than I originally believed. I have studied the Sedevacantist position more (mostly on Most Holy Family Monastery) and have found it more and more truthful. However, I am frightened by the, what I would take as almost radical, position of MHFM that all traditional Catholics are dammed if they do not follow the Sedevacantist position. They believe that even those in the SSPX, which are extremely traditional, are dammed. I must ask honestly to you all if you, as many of you are Sedes, believe the same thing, or is this just something that the Dimond brothers believe? I know they accuse the SSPX of many heresies, such as believing the present popes are popes and their salvation theology being heretical. 
I know that normal Catholics, including some possible traditionalists, believe that Sedevacantists are schism-ed of their own right. 

Thus, I guess my real question could be: Sedes, do you believe non-Sedes are saved even though they, in your opinion, follow an anti-pope? and non-Sedes (while still being traditionalist), do you believe Sedes are saved even though they, in your opinion, don't follow the true pope?

I thank you very sincerely for your help and guidance. My faith journey has entered a period of fear and confusion, and I am very thankful for the time you take to help. 

Sincerely,

Noah
“Take my advice and live for a long, long time. Because the maddest thing a man can do in this life is to let himself die.” 

“When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? Perhaps to be too practical is madness. To surrender dreams — this may be madness. Too much sanity may be madness — and maddest of all: to see life as it is, and not as it should be!” 

- Don Quixote
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#2
extra Eccleisiam nulla salus 

You will hear differing opinions on who exactly is “extra” but unfortunately it’s something you will need to personally decide.
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#3
I am in a similar position but I decided that being a dogmatic sede / home aloner like the Dimond Bros. wouldn't be good for my family's spirituality. They disagreed and called me names but I have to keep my sanity and make sure my children grow up secure in their faith. I personally don't think non-sedes are saved but thanks to Rome's shenanigans, more conservative NOs are looking at traditionalism, more Indult types are looking at R&R, and finally, more R&Rs are looking at sedevacantism. Sedevacantism is not a huge leap from R&R since R&Rs willfully ignore everything after 1962. Ever see an SSPX gift shop? It's as if P6, JPI, JPII, B16, and F never existed. The only trace of J23 is the 1962 Missal. I basically view all of the trad movement as a highway to sedevacantism. Sufficient grace will permit everyone of goodwill to travel to the destination but many people will take distracting or destructive stops/detours. Francis is waking drivers up who have been dozing at the wheel and I thank him for that.

"My faith journey has entered a period of fear and confusion"

This is a good thing. Anyone who is an adult and not in that state doesn't comprehend the situation or is arrogant.
”What happened after the [Second Vatican] Council was something else entirely: in the place of liturgy as the fruit of development came fabricated liturgy. We abandoned the organic, living process of growth and development over centuries, and replaced it – as in a manufacturing process – with a fabrication, a banal on -the-spot product.” -- Cardinal Ratzinger, in the preface to Klaus Gambler's The Reform of the Roman Liturgy: Its Problems and Background
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#4
Those who are saved are they who die in the state of grace.

Being a sedevacantist does not mean you are automatically saved, just as being a Catholic does not mean you are automatically saved.
MHFM, while they have put out some good content, are Feeneyites, meaning they take extra ecclesia non salus to an extreme and basically say that everyone who dies without water baptism and is not a card-carrying Roman Catholic will end up in Hell. They deny baptism of desire and baptism by blood.

I am a sedevacantist (technically sedeprivationist), and I don't believe I will be saved simply because of a theological position on the current state of the Church. I believe I will be saved, God-willing, if I die without mortal sin on my soul.

I suggest stepping away from MHFM and reading some pre-conciliar books like the Catechism of Trent.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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#5
Holy Family Monastery is an arrogant bunch. They are very good at mixing a little bit of truth with a lot of outrageous lies, and they also excel at playing to traditional Catholics’s  rightfully placed anger towards the state of the church today. However, as Augustinian stated above, they have a very strict view of EENS, and deny the very valid baptism of desire and baptism of blood. I also suggest reading the catechism of the Council of Trent. I would recommend staying away from the Diamond Brothers; they are almost gleeful in their proclamation that the majority of people are damned to hell forever, which isn’t the best way to save souls and draw others closer to Christ.
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#6
A broken clock is right twice a day, so even if the Dimonds get a few things right, the amount of wrong things they proffer should suggest avoiding/ignoring them is the safest course of action.

That said, I'd have a prudent fear that the Dimond Brothers are not just a broken analog clock, but digital.
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#7
(11-19-2020, 02:38 PM)I am the GOAT Wrote: I am in a similar position but I decided that being a dogmatic sede / home aloner like the Dimond Bros. wouldn't be good for my family's spirituality. They disagreed and called me names but I have to keep my sanity and make sure my children grow up secure in their faith. I personally don't think non-sedes are saved but thanks to Rome's shenanigans, more conservative NOs are looking at traditionalism, more Indult types are looking at R&R, and finally, more R&Rs are looking at sedevacantism. Sedevacantism is not a huge leap from R&R since R&Rs willfully ignore everything after 1962. Ever see an SSPX gift shop? It's as if P6, JPI, JPII, B16, and F never existed. The only trace of J23 is the 1962 Missal. I basically view all of the trad movement as a highway to sedevacantism. Sufficient grace will permit everyone of goodwill to travel to the destination but many people will take distracting or destructive stops/detours. Francis is waking drivers up who have been dozing at the wheel and I thank him for that.

"My faith journey has entered a period of fear and confusion"

This is a good thing. Anyone who is an adult and not in that state doesn't comprehend the situation or is arrogant.
Can I ask you why you would believe that those in the SSPX are not saved? Thank you.

I feel like being in this state as a teen is what is getting me most confused and afraid, as I fear for the salvation of my family and also for my future, that (if I decide God is calling me to become a priest), I may enter into the right seminary of the right "branch" (yes, I know that's not the best comparison) of Catholicism. 

Deo Gratias and thank you for your answers.
“Take my advice and live for a long, long time. Because the maddest thing a man can do in this life is to let himself die.” 

“When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? Perhaps to be too practical is madness. To surrender dreams — this may be madness. Too much sanity may be madness — and maddest of all: to see life as it is, and not as it should be!” 

- Don Quixote
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#8
(11-19-2020, 02:42 PM)Augustinian Wrote: Those who are saved are they who die in the state of grace.

Being a sedevacantist does not mean you are automatically saved, just as being a Catholic does not mean you are automatically saved.
MHFM, while they have put out some good content, are Feeneyites, meaning they take extra ecclesia non salus to an extreme and basically say that everyone who dies without water baptism and is not a card-carrying Roman Catholic will end up in Hell. They deny baptism of desire and baptism by blood.

I am a sedevacantist (technically sedeprivationist), and I don't believe I will be saved simply because of a theological position on the current state of the Church. I believe I will be saved, God-willing, if I die without mortal sin on my soul.

I suggest stepping away from MHFM and reading some pre-conciliar books like the Catechism of Trent.
Can one be in a state of grace if they follow an anti-pope, or, if they don't follow the true Pope?

I find that theory very interesting.

I apologize if I am taking your time but could you suggest some other books? I think by "pre-conciliar", you mean before Vatican 2, yet I am not completely sure.

Thank you for your help.
“Take my advice and live for a long, long time. Because the maddest thing a man can do in this life is to let himself die.” 

“When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? Perhaps to be too practical is madness. To surrender dreams — this may be madness. Too much sanity may be madness — and maddest of all: to see life as it is, and not as it should be!” 

- Don Quixote
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#9
(11-19-2020, 03:00 PM)SacraCor714 Wrote: Holy Family Monastery is an arrogant bunch. They are very good at mixing a little bit of truth with a lot of outrageous lies, and they also excel at playing to traditional Catholics’s  rightfully placed anger towards the state of the church today. However, as Augustinian stated above, they have a very strict view of EENS, and deny the very valid baptism of desire and baptism of blood. I also suggest reading the catechism of the Council of Trent. I would recommend staying away from the Diamond Brothers; they are almost gleeful in their proclamation that the majority of people are damned to hell forever, which isn’t the best way to save souls and draw others closer to Christ.
I will stay away from them and their videos, thank you for your recommendation. And yes, I have noticed that as well.
Thank you for your answer, God Bless.
“Take my advice and live for a long, long time. Because the maddest thing a man can do in this life is to let himself die.” 

“When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? Perhaps to be too practical is madness. To surrender dreams — this may be madness. Too much sanity may be madness — and maddest of all: to see life as it is, and not as it should be!” 

- Don Quixote
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#10
Come East!  These issues aren't really even on our radar.  Not because they're not important, but really, they're not THAT important.  Do the will of God, receive the sacraments, and be in communion with your bishop.  Leave the rest to the hierarchy.
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