Priest Points To Generational Spirits
#11
I first heard about generational spirits at a weekend retreat that turned out to be hosted by a group of Pentecostal Catholics. They also introduced a lengthy group prayer rejecting any past associations or influence from Free Masonry. When they started babbling and falling over (after the priests retired for the evening) I walked out. Later I encountered the concept in Fr. Ripperger's youtube videos.

My take on it was, for me, another opportunity to examine my conscience, work on amending my life, and pray for the poor souls in purgatory (some of which may be my ancestors, I hope). Fr. Ripperger says a lot, and one has to be very careful about selectively hearing one thing, and forgetting the rest. Messing with demons and devils is out of my pay grade, so to speak. Fr. Ripperger warns to never exceed one's authority or bad things can happen.
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#12
curses are real, gen. Spirits are too.

Maybe not recognised so much in USA.
Hail Mary
Full of grace
The Lord is with Thee
Blessed art Thou amounst women
And blessed is the fruit of Thy womb
Jesus
Holy Mary
Mother of God
Pray for us sinners
Now and at the hour of death
Amen
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#13
(12-03-2020, 05:08 PM)AnaCarolina Wrote: curses are real, gen. Spirits are too.

No one questions curses.

Generational spirits seem to question Baptism and its exorcisms, though.

So, without solid proof this idea is not just from evangelical Protestantism, I'm very skeptical. Care to help?

All I'm looking for is a tried-and-true old Catholic spiritual manual, like Tanqueray's, Royo-Marin, or some classic spiritual theologian, like St Francis de Sales who discusses generational spirits, by name, or at least by concept.

Everyone I know who promotes the idea of generational spirits has never been able to do this. They always just make silly arguments as I noted above, or point me to Fr Ripperger. I simply don't find his arguments convincing. If these are a Catholic idea, then I just want to see proof of that.

Oh, and, having been in lots of places in the world, even some far reaches, the modern generational spirits idea seems to be quite popular in Charismatic Catholic circles in the U.S. and no as much in other places.
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#14
I'm finding this discussion to be very interesting and I appreciate getting the most authentic Catholic take on things; that's why I joined this particular forum.
I must also admit that I had only ever heard of generational curses from my former days as a Protestant. I also have to say that Father Ripperger was a major factor in my return to Catholicism after years away. That being said, I know that we must all use discernment and an eye toward the teachings of the Magisterium when coming across new topics.
I do not leap to blame demons for my problems; I take full responsibility while also acknowledging that my family history may predispose me to certain challenges. I also know that the more Catholic my life, the less hold the evils of the past hold over me. My own weaknesses and failings are certainly large enough to explain my problems.
All of that being said, now that I know that this particular topic is of dubious value, I discard it so as not to distract myself from more important, and doctrinally verifiable, things.
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#15
How do generational spirits slip through baptism and confession?

Because God allows them to in some cases. Why? For spiritual growth. He allows each of us to close the door.  

And remember, that generational spirits start somewhere. Fr. Rippenger speaks of these often..
Hail Mary
Full of grace
The Lord is with Thee
Blessed art Thou amounst women
And blessed is the fruit of Thy womb
Jesus
Holy Mary
Mother of God
Pray for us sinners
Now and at the hour of death
Amen
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#16
(12-03-2020, 07:14 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: Oh, and, having been in lots of places in the world, even some far reaches, the modern generational spirits idea seems to be quite popular in Charismatic Catholic circles in the U.S. and no as much in other places.

That's my experience, limited as it is.  I think you are making a good point by insisting that someone "show where" the concept of generational spirits are written about in the long history of the Catholic Church.  They can't.  But isn't that how it is with Charismatic Renewal?
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#17
(12-03-2020, 08:19 PM)Matas Wrote:
(12-03-2020, 07:14 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: Oh, and, having been in lots of places in the world, even some far reaches, the modern generational spirits idea seems to be quite popular in Charismatic Catholic circles in the U.S. and no as much in other places.

That's my experience, limited as it is.  I think you are making a good point by insisting that someone "show where" the concept of generational spirits are written about in the long history of the Catholic Church.  They can't.  But isn't that how it is with Charismatic Renewal?

I think what makes me willing to consider more evidence and not simply dismiss is Fr Ripperger. He's a smart man and while he has some issues (he tends to be a rigorist in moral theology, for instance), if he's pushing the idea, I am hesitant to merely dismiss it. I can't imagine he'd not have found a traditional source, perhaps even very old.

If so, I'd like to know it, and be shown to have been too harsh on this and correct myself.

If he hasn't, then I worry about recommending him in the other matters in which he seems to be good.

I really just want some good traditional evidence of solid spiritual authors from the past addressing the matter, and the terminology isn't so important. I'm happy with the general concept from a Catholic source pre-20th century, or even a source of unquestionable orthodoxy from the first half of the 20th century.
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#18
(11-25-2020, 12:06 PM)Zedta Wrote: Interesting article here. It is about a subject that I have begun studying recently due to some personal issues I was exploring. The article is a good one and worth the short few minutes it may take one to read, and, it may strike a chord with you as well.


Article Wrote:Link to Original Blog Post

Priest Points To Generational Spirits



We've long been interested in the testimony of priests concerning what they call "generational healing." That's when spiritual burdens from the past -- from ancestors -- are allegedly lifted. Holidays are a great time to pray for our families.

We say "allegedly" because while this practice is growing, is accepted by many priests, and appears to conflict with no strictures of the Church, it still raises questions among some Christians. It is a fascinating concept: that like Scripture says (Exodus 34:7) -- and as we know from Adam and Eve -- sins of the fathers can be passed down through the generations.

Could this really be? Might spiritual matters be inherited — passed down like genes?

In the past, we’ve spoken to experts such as Father John Hampsch of California (who recently died at 94; his book shows the biblical basis) and Father Robert DeGrandis of Washington, D.C. (also now deceased). A while ago, we called another, Father Lou Cerulli of Montreal, who explained that there are just too many cases where recurring problems — divorce, alcoholism, financial problems, accidents — run in families. When a person dies, he believes, spirits that caused such problems or spiritual proclivities are passed on to the descendants.

“All of us are affected at least to some degree,” says Father Cerulli. “Some people are more affected than others. Some people have no problems until they are 40 or 50. There are always degrees. But if you’re going back to all the generations, there is going to be something. Whether we’re aware of it or not is another question.”

According to Father Cerulli (who travels extensively giving healing Masses), burdens from the past seem to especially manifest through disorders that are psychological or emotional. To dispel them Father Cerulli focuses on the Eucharist, asking those who seek his help to fill out a “genogram (basically, a family tree with the names of ancestors) and reciting prayers designed to alleviate such problems. During Mass the priest tells those seeking his counsel to continue writing down any facts, thoughts, or memories about deceased relatives. He speaks especially about the effects of past occult involvement. After the gifts are brought up, Father Cerulli says he recites another prayer to break generational curses.

“Then they bring up the family trees and they are placed in a basket that I raise up to the Lord for His healing,” explains Father Cerulli. “The Eucharist is celebrated and afterward the genograms are sealed in envelopes that are never opened and given to a community of nuns in Montreal who pray over them for three months, later disposing of them by burning them.”

All kinds of problems dissolve. There are physical healings. There is deliverance from disorders like anorexia, bulimia, and even suicidal tendencies. Usually it’s the relief from a general malaise that has haunted folks for decades.

“Invariably, there will be people who come up and say they had been carrying a burden — abortion, miscarriages, infant death — and afterward you can see the release on their faces,” claims Father Cerulli.  “Such peace and joy! Often, there is reconciliation. We have cases where there’s been an estrangement and people haven’t heard from family members for maybe 20 years or more, and all of a sudden there’s a knock on the door or a letter in the mail or a phone call. I remember an instance where a lady was even unaware that she had a sibling and after a weekend retreat, she came into contact with this sibling. Sometimes this is within days or weeks of a celebration of the Eucharist for the family tree.”

Now in his seventies, Father Cerulli was a late vocation who was ordained in 1991 and was inspired to start his ministry by an English psychiatrist named Dr. Kenneth McCall who wrote extraordinary, groundbreaking books on generational healing (at some point in the future, we’ll explore the life of this incredible psychiatrist). Father Cerulli usually gives a monthly healing Mass in Montreal, and will soon be pastor of St. Ignatius Loyola in that Canadian city.

What advice does he give to families who feel they are “haunted” — that there is something negative hovering around their lineage?

If they can’t get to a healing Mass, he advises, they should meet as a family and discuss the issue. “One thing I suggest they do is put their thoughts on paper and develop a genogram as a tool, not as a science, but to become as specific as we can in praying for our families,” says the priest. “If possible, get together and look at the family tree. Sit down, have a nice meal together, share your stories, bring your photographs, and put it down on paper. Try to be as specific as possible. Put down names if you can. If you don’t know the name of your great-great grandfather, then just put down ‘GGF.’ After you’ve had your discussion and made your notes, pray. Pray for the healing of your family tree.”

Father Cerulli believes there are spiritual aspects particular to various lineages. For example, Italians often confront occult spirits passed down from ancient paganism or from practices such as witchcraft, the Black Hand, or the “evil eye.” There is also much occultism in Latin cultures, notes the priest — who worked in the financial industry and designed training programs for major corporations before responding to the priestly call.

But really, says Father Cerulli, no ethnicity can be singled out. Every culture has its spiritual problems. Unhealthy practices “open up doors to the family line that never should have been opened,” and one striking example, he believes, may be the ancient and seemingly intractable Jewish-Arab division. He believes if it may go back to the fact that Abraham had two sons — one by his lawful wife, Sarah, the other by their Egyptian servant, Hagar.

The son by Sarah was Isaac, and his descendants were to inherit Canaan. The son born of Hagar was named Ishmael and may have been a patron of Arabs.
“His hand will be against everyone, and everyone’s hand will be against him; And he will live to the east of all his brothers,” notes Genesis 16.
“These two guys and these two nations have been at each other ever since,” notes Father Cerulli.

“Ultimately, we all have problems. We’re all connected. We may be different people and different cultures and different languages, but if you go right back we come from God and are all one, are all connected.”
My take on generational curses, (protestant version), is that it was a scam started by Larry Huch and promoted by EWTN TBN when they picked up on the unknown Portland pastor with a checkered past in the early 2000s. Of course Larry smelt the money and was soon promoted to a mega-church in Texas as a reward for services rendered just in time to promote the Iraq war. Total Torah believing dyed in the wool Judeo Christian. Anything this guy pushes is purely political, (e.g. generational curses/blessings, get it?), and sows nothing but confusion.
Oh, where are the snows of yesteryear!
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#19
Well, I suppose one may not run into such subjects as this one in the beginning of the thread, unless one digs deeply into the subject. It is not one commonly spoke of and the Protestants may have been delving into some of the information found deeper in Catholic circles, picked up on it and put a Charismatic's bent to it all and made a lot of emotional hay out of it. That is, as usual for them, rather counterproductive in the end.

Jesus castigated some 'followers' as not knowing them, despite their claims of casting out Demons in His name. Same today too, it would appear.

I have searched only a few noted Exorcist's books I have, and exorcists tend, it would seem, to deal with the subject, so they speak of it. Fr. Martin, Fr. Amorth are two that come to mind and as the article notes:

Quote:In the past, we’ve spoken to experts [emphasis mine] such as Father John Hampsch of California (who recently died at 94; his book shows the biblical basis) and Father Robert DeGrandis of Washington, D.C. (also now deceased). A while ago, we called another, Father Lou Cerulli of Montreal, who explained that there are just too many cases where recurring problems — divorce, alcoholism, financial problems, accidents — run in families. When a person dies, he believes, spirits that caused such problems or spiritual proclivities are passed on to the descendants.

There appear to be quite a few others as well.

If one had a very specific ailment, one would seek out a specialist, because thay study the unusual conditions that most practitioners do not and may not even be aware of. Not searching these sorts of practitioners out for such an ailment, and using a more common practitioner, may make the illness worse.

Perhaps this adage could be applicable in the 'Generational Spirits' condition as well?
One should have an open mind; open enough that things get in, but not so open that everything falls out
Art Bell
  
I don't need a good memory, because I always tell the truth.
Jessie Ventura

Its no wonder truth is stranger than fiction.
Fiction has to make sense
Mark Twain

If history doesn't repeat itself, it sure does rhyme.
Mark Twain

You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.
C.S. Lewis

Political Correctness is Fascism pretending to be manners.
George Carlin

“In a time of deceit…truth is a revolutionary act”
George Orwell
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