Is it ever OK to attend a Novus Ordo Mass?
#44
(11-30-2020, 03:44 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: The issue is whether the Novus Ordo, as a whole (not just in the "extremes"), represents this danger to the faith, either by actively undermining it, or by not properly teaching it (a danger by omission of what ought to be present).

And I would say that is where we ultimately disagree and are not going to convince each other of the other side.  I am interpreting that you think the Novus Ordo as a whole is a danger to the faith, and I would say that it is not.  I would very quickly say that the Roman Church would be far better off without the Novus Ordo, but we're not there yet.

(11-30-2020, 03:44 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: How can we be a decent judge of whether our faith is "strong enough". When even the faith of the Apostles failed, how can we trust that we can expose ourselves to danger and come out better than they did, seeing as God Himself was physically with them.

Well, I'm not going to go to a bad Novus Ordo if I can avoid it, but if I have the unfortunate experience of walking into one (as has happened to me), I know that it is not going to shatter my faith.  I'm well grounded enough that I can stand a few shakes.  I wouldn't say I'm going to come out better from exposure to danger, but one has to know how to handle it because life isn't always safe.

(11-30-2020, 03:44 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: You don't want to judge where the line is, but you're happy to say that the SSPX has crossed it ... sounds a bit hypocritical.

I don't believe an apostolic society has the right to make a general pronouncement that people ought not to attend the Novus Ordo if it's the only Mass available to them.  That's all I'm saying.

(11-30-2020, 03:44 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: But you already said that following the rubrics was no a guarantee of avoiding danger to the faith, so why now suggest it is?

I'm not suggesting that, but I think that you are suggesting that the Novus Ordo in and of itself is a danger to the faith, and I do not agree with that statement.

(11-30-2020, 03:44 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: Again, we're back to valid equals good. This seems to be your theme, and you seem not to see the problem with that approach.

I am not saying valid equals good.  I am saying valid equals valid.  Bologna and steak are both meat, but the latter is far superior in a number of ways.  Both will fulfil one's need for nourishment, but one will do a much better job than the other.  You still have to eat in either case.

(11-30-2020, 03:44 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: You have taken up a public position in this thread accusing others of error and of scandal (by suggesting people avoid Mass on Sunday). You have not taken time to understand why these people say this, but rather imposed your own view from that conscience on others.

You may be 100% correct, but that will be established by engaging the reasons why the SSPX argument is incorrect, not just stating it is again and again, and that validity is the standard.

I have taken up a public position that the Novus Ordo in and of itself does not represent a danger to the faith.  I would go so far as to say that in the majority of places where it is celebrated, it doesn't help much for one to grow in his faith.  Still, one is obliged under Canon Law to fulfil his Sunday obligation in all ordinary circumstances (and the Ordinary Form of the Mass is the ordinary circumstance for most Roman Catholics), and one still receives Our Lord in Communion at the Novus Ordo, which includes graces one should not pass up on receiving.  The only other public position I assert is that the SSPX does not have the authority to make a general pronouncement that Catholics who have only the Novus Ordo available to fulfil their Sunday obligation are better off not going.

There, lest there be any confusion, that is the position I state.  I know you are contrary minded, and we're not about to convince each other of the other side.  I just don't see the point in further discussion.
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RE: Is it ever OK to attend a Novus Ordo Mass? - by NSMSSS - 11-30-2020, 04:57 PM



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