Is it ever OK to attend a Novus Ordo Mass?
#45
(11-30-2020, 04:57 PM)NSMSSS Wrote: I am interpreting that you think the Novus Ordo as a whole is a danger to the faith, and I would say that it is not.

In general, I would simply say with Cardinal Ottaviani wrote, the Novus Ordo Mass "represents, both as a whole and in its details, a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated by the Council of Trent."

As such it is not a "Catholic" rite in itself, and this is why I have seen it used by Methodists and Lutherans verbatim (and closer to the rubrics than the average Catholic Mass!). It is amorphous, and could be used by Protestants or Catholics, and that was the whole goal of Msgr Bugnini, as he, himself, said.

The Novus Ordo Mass could be made Catholic by the priest who supplies an environment which emphasizes what the rite has removed, such as to emphasize the real presence, the ordained priesthood's role as opposed to the lay priesthood, and that the Mass is a sacrifice and not a meal.

Jovan's diocese does this pretty well from what he says, and if one starts with the position from Cardinal Ottaviani, then the conclusion is that if these elements are added back that these Masses would then not have that danger that is found in the lacunæ that are present in the rite.

So, yours is both a partially accurate, but also inaccurate summary of my personal take.

(11-30-2020, 04:57 PM)NSMSSS Wrote: I don't believe an apostolic society has the right to make a general pronouncement that people ought not to attend the Novus Ordo if it's the only Mass available to them.  That's all I'm saying.

But you are publicly stating your own general pronouncement that their reasoning is incorrect, so if you can make such a general pronouncement, why can they not do so?

(11-30-2020, 04:57 PM)NSMSSS Wrote: I am not saying valid equals good.  I am saying valid equals valid.  Bologna and steak are both meat, but the latter is far superior in a number of ways.  Both will fulfil one's need for nourishment, but one will do a much better job than the other.  You still have to eat in either case.

You are saying valid equals good. That Methodist-Catholic monstrous hybrid I hypothesized is a valid Mass. One need to go? One has an obligation to attend?

If the SSPX's position is correct (and that's the point for discussion, I would think), then your analogy is flawed because it is not bologna vs steak, but poisoned bologna vs steak. If one does not have the steak, is one obliged to eat the poisoned lunch meat?

As above, if they are incorrect, or there is a situation in which the Novus Ordo Mass were not a danger to one's faith, then your analogy and argument are spot on.

So, the disagreement seems to be over the principles the SSPX is enunciating about why they think the Novus Ordo is such a danger and to be avoided, not that they say this.

(11-30-2020, 04:57 PM)NSMSSS Wrote: I know you are contrary minded, and we're not about to convince each other of the other side.  I just don't see the point in further discussion.

If, however, we are not going to discuss why the SSPX is incorrect, then indeed, there is no point.

However, if we could discuss those points, there might be a great deal of value here, even if we do not agree, especially for others. I leave that ball in your court.
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RE: Is it ever OK to attend a Novus Ordo Mass? - by MagisterMusicae - 11-30-2020, 10:25 PM



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