Latin Language
#21
(02-26-2021, 03:05 PM)IV_Catholic Wrote:
(02-25-2021, 06:50 PM)Fuerza Wrote:
(02-22-2021, 10:28 AM)IV_Catholic Wrote: I picked up "Latin by the Natural Method, Vol 1" by Fr. William Most.
I must say, after paging through it and completing the first lesson, this might actually be a course I can stick with.

Fr. Most put together a very good program. I’m currently teaching my kids using Getting Started with Latin and one of the readers from the Little Latin Readers series, but I plan to work from Fr. Most’s books along with Familia Romana when they’re more advanced (and a little older). I don’t know if I’m supposed to post links, but the entire Latin by the Natural Method series, all three levels plus instructor editions, is available for free online. Someone even devised audio drills to go along with it. If you get through the first level and want to continue you can download it from a few different sites.

Is this the link?  https://cerclelatin.org/wiki/Most_versio...econd-year

I got it from here (scroll down): https://learnchurchlatin.com/2019/06/21/...liam-most/
Yep that’s it. If you look in that same section of the Church Latin page you’ll see that the author posted some audio lessons to accompany parts of the text.
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#22
(02-26-2021, 11:44 AM)Filiolus Wrote: The jump from Familia Romana to Roma Aeterna is steep because after the first chapter Roma Aeterna is exclusively primary texts that have been abridged. The texts in some of the early chapters have very slight edits in syntax, but by the middle of the book there are no syntactical or grammatical edits at all, and you are just reading Livy, Eutropius, Ovid, Caesar, Cicero, etc.

I do think that jump was intentional; Ørberg wanted to continue challenging students so that they would continue to improve quickly. The LLPSI series makes learning Latin easy in that you are always in the language, and you don't train your brain to parse and translate to English as you read. In other words, you learn the language as a language, not as a puzzle. However, it is difficult in that it does take concentrated, intentional intellectual effort in some places, and you don't have the benefit of an English explanation of what's going on. There do exist textbooks that accompanyLLPSI to provide those explanations in English, though I'm not sure how Ørberg would have felt about them.

I've read all of the Colloquia Personarum, but I wouldn't say that was a huge part of my learning process, and that particular book is not a good bridge, in my opinion, because it's too easy. It's useful for students in that it's another text to read (or even a script to perform), and the more iterations of the grammar and syntax the better you will know the language.

I also did not use Fabulae Syrae, but I did read many of those stories later down the line. They are worth some time, and Epitome Historiae Sacrae is also worth looking at. Other non-LLPSI resources that should serve as bridges are the Vulgate, Gestae Romanae, easier Christian texts such as the Passio Perpetuae et Felicitatis, listening to Latin podcasts, and watching series of videos that teach you Latin idioms and colloquialisms from teachers such as the ones produced by Daniel Petterson.

But whatever else you do, the most important thing to attain proficiency is lots of reading, lots of listening to people who are very proficient in Latin. But when seeking listening resources, it's important you find teachers who know what they're doing, because there are also many resources from teachers who do not know the language well.

That's good to know. I'll probably skip Colloquia Personarum, especially since the similar Fabellae Latinae is free on the Hackett website. In theory I'd be interested in Fabulae Syrae, though if I understand correctly most of those stories are adapted from Ovid, and are thus readily available anyway. Epitome Historiae Sacrae is definitely on my list after I finish FR, but I'm still debating whether to continue with RA or go in a different direction. As I said I plan to work through at least some of Most, and in addition Geoffrey Steadman puts all his intermediate Latin and Greek readers, with lexical/grammatical notes, on his website for free. He actually covers most of the same authors covered by Orberg through RA and the ancillary readers. After that I could try my hand at going brute force through The Latin Library online with a dictionary and some strong coffee, though I'm still a bit away from that.
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#23
(02-26-2021, 11:35 PM)Fuerza Wrote:
(02-26-2021, 11:44 AM)Filiolus Wrote: The jump from Familia Romana to Roma Aeterna is steep because after the first chapter Roma Aeterna is exclusively primary texts that have been abridged. The texts in some of the early chapters have very slight edits in syntax, but by the middle of the book there are no syntactical or grammatical edits at all, and you are just reading Livy, Eutropius, Ovid, Caesar, Cicero, etc.

I do think that jump was intentional; Ørberg wanted to continue challenging students so that they would continue to improve quickly. The LLPSI series makes learning Latin easy in that you are always in the language, and you don't train your brain to parse and translate to English as you read. In other words, you learn the language as a language, not as a puzzle. However, it is difficult in that it does take concentrated, intentional intellectual effort in some places, and you don't have the benefit of an English explanation of what's going on. There do exist textbooks that accompanyLLPSI to provide those explanations in English, though I'm not sure how Ørberg would have felt about them.

I've read all of the Colloquia Personarum, but I wouldn't say that was a huge part of my learning process, and that particular book is not a good bridge, in my opinion, because it's too easy. It's useful for students in that it's another text to read (or even a script to perform), and the more iterations of the grammar and syntax the better you will know the language.

I also did not use Fabulae Syrae, but I did read many of those stories later down the line. They are worth some time, and Epitome Historiae Sacrae is also worth looking at. Other non-LLPSI resources that should serve as bridges are the Vulgate, Gestae Romanae, easier Christian texts such as the Passio Perpetuae et Felicitatis, listening to Latin podcasts, and watching series of videos that teach you Latin idioms and colloquialisms from teachers such as the ones produced by Daniel Petterson.

But whatever else you do, the most important thing to attain proficiency is lots of reading, lots of listening to people who are very proficient in Latin. But when seeking listening resources, it's important you find teachers who know what they're doing, because there are also many resources from teachers who do not know the language well.

That's good to know. I'll probably skip Colloquia Personarum, especially since the similar Fabellae Latinae is free on the Hackett website. In theory I'd be interested in Fabulae Syrae, though if I understand correctly most of those stories are adapted from Ovid, and are thus readily available anyway. Epitome Historiae Sacrae is definitely on my list after I finish FR, but I'm still debating whether to continue with RA or go in a different direction. As I said I plan to work through at least some of Most, and in addition Geoffrey Steadman puts all his intermediate Latin and Greek readers, with lexical/grammatical notes, on his website for free. He actually covers most of the same authors covered by Orberg through RA and the ancillary readers. After that I could try my hand at going brute force through The Latin Library online with a dictionary and some strong coffee, though I'm still a bit away from that.

The choice between Steadman/Roma Aeterna is a choice between pedagogies; Steadman provides his definitions in English, so using his texts is a different experience from working your way through Roma Aeterna.

Reading Steadman's texts feels a LOT easier, because you have the crutch of English. However, working through RA first will make you much better at Latin... but it is very difficult the first time you see it.

Don't get me wrong, I've used a few of Steadman's texts, and when I'm reading something new, I do look up words in a Latin-English dictionary. Sometimes it's just necessary. But when you're learning, it's easy to choose a text that is too hard for you, and then to think you're reading Latin when you're actually decoding and reading in English. If you don't know at least 85% of the words you're reading, you need an easier text. Learning a language, especially such a highly inflected language, just takes patience and tons and tons of reading.
Dissolve frigus ligna super foco
large reponens atque benignius
     deprome quadrimum Sabina,
          O Thaliarche, merum diota.

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#24
I should add that it’s not really an either/or choice; use both! It’s just a question of emphasis.
Dissolve frigus ligna super foco
large reponens atque benignius
     deprome quadrimum Sabina,
          O Thaliarche, merum diota.

Permitte divis cetera...
Reply




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