Jesus descends into hell just before his resurrection.
#1
I wonder if someone could clear up for me the sequence of events regarding all those in hell that Jesus went to release with regard to their status and eventual judgement as to staying in hell or heaven and time periods please.

Any references to theological papers on this would be gratefully received.
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#2
Jesus decended into shoel (spelling) and opened the gates of heaven for the deserving.
These were unfortunate holy people who were seperated from  God through no fault of thier own.
Jesus sits at the right hand of the father and judges us.

The time frame of this occurance was after crucifixtion until Jesus rose from the dead.
I have no theological papers....just scriptute.
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#3
Check the Baltimore Catechism on the Harrowing of Hell, but here’s a quick and dirty search result below.

Declaring the Just (633-634)
This abode of the dead is called "hell" because the souls are deprived of the vision of God. Jesus delivered only the "holy souls." He did not descend into hell to deliver the damned or to destroy the hell of damnation. Rather, he freed the just who had gone before him (Council of Rome).
When Jesus "preached even to the dead" (1 Pet 4:6) he completely fulfilled his mission. This act shows that Christ's redemptive act has spread to all men of all times.
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#4
(12-10-2020, 10:35 AM)Pandora Wrote: Check the Baltimore Catechism on the Harrowing of Hell, but here’s a quick and dirty search result below.

Declaring the Just (633-634)
This abode of the dead is called "hell" because the souls are deprived of the vision of God. Jesus delivered only the "holy souls." He did not descend into hell to deliver the damned or to destroy the hell of damnation. Rather, he freed the just who had gone before him (Council of Rome).
When Jesus "preached even to the dead" (1 Pet 4:6) he completely fulfilled his mission. This act shows that Christ's redemptive act has spread to all men of all times.


Thanks for the reply.

One further point to clarify - was there no chance of purgatory for any borderline cases or was it just either hell/heaven?
In the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph.
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#5
It sounds like you are asking what is the difference between the souls that remained in hell after Jesus descended into Hell and those souls that went with Jesus to heaven. Is that correct?

That is addressed in the Catechism

https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a...22a5p1.htm

"633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom":481 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483"

The reference to 483 will also provide you with additional references

483 Cf. Council of Rome (745): DS 587; Benedict XII, Cum dudum (1341): DS 1011; Clement VI, Super quibusdam (1351): DS 1077; Council of Toledo IV (625): DS 485; Mt 27:52-53.

You may also try Denzinger, not sure if Denzinger is online.
"There are in truth three states of the converted: the beginning,  the middle and the perfection. In the beginning, they experience the charms of sweetness; in the middle, the contests of temptation; and in the end, the fullness of perfection."
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#6
(12-10-2020, 12:19 PM)MyLady Wrote: One further point to clarify - was there no chance of purgatory for any borderline cases or was it just either hell/heaven?

There are no 'borderline' cases. One either is or is not in a state of grace, and goes to heaven or hell accordingly, and one mortal sin is all it takes to go to hell. Maybe it's not what you meant, but we can't think of purgatory as a sort of second chance. A 'good person' who commits a mortal sin and dies without repentance is damned. God doesn't weigh the good and bad and decide, oh, his life was 90% feeding the homeless and 10% porn, so he goes to purgatory.
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#7
Thanks everyone.

Will look into the references as well.
In the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph.
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#8
Some scriptural events have always stood out to me as concerns what you ask.

First, there is the story of Lazarus and the rich man and how Lazarus is with Abraham, in 'the bosom of Abraham' and the account relates that he is at a place, not in hell, but you could see it from there. Was this a 'Paradise' a rest stop of sorts, for those who died under the "Law" and were awaiting, with Abraham, for Jesus to free them to Heaven?

Then, when Jesus died, the scriptures say that there were earthquakes and great turmoil in Jerusalem and the surrounding areas and that dead spirits were seen in the streets. Could these be the released souls?

Then there is Dysmus, the 'good' thief, who is told by Jesus that he would be with Him in 'Paradise'. Could his soul have been in 'The Bosom of Abraham', awaiting with the others, for Jesus to free them?

Then, when Jesus Ascended, He said He would prepare a place in His Father's mansions for His followers. Could this be a 'refurbishment' of that place, the Bosom of Abraham, not in hell, but nearby and not where heaven could be seen? Perhaps a Purgatorial place?

I cite no Catholic sources or scripture, but I always wondered about these things. They seem fascinatingly plausible, at the least.
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#9
(12-10-2020, 02:11 PM)Zedta Wrote: Some scriptural events have always stood out to me as concerns what you ask.

First, there is the story of Lazarus and the rich man and how Lazarus is with Abraham, in 'the bosom of Abraham' and the account relates that he is at a place, not in hell, but you could see it from there. Was this a 'Paradise' a rest stop of sorts, for those who died under the "Law" and were awaiting, with Abraham, for Jesus to free them to Heaven?

Then, when Jesus died, the scriptures say that there were earthquakes and great turmoil in Jerusalem and the surrounding areas and that dead spirits were seen in the streets. Could these be the released souls?

Then there is Dysmus, the 'good' thief, who is told by Jesus that he would be with Him in 'Paradise'. Could his soul have been in 'The Bosom of Abraham', awaiting with the others, for Jesus to free them?

Then, when Jesus Ascended, He said He would prepare a place in His Father's mansions for His followers. Could this be a 'refurbishment' of that place, the Bosom of Abraham, not in hell, but nearby and not where heaven could be seen? Perhaps a Purgatorial place?

I cite no Catholic sources or scripture, but I always wondered about these things. They seem fascinatingly plausible, at the least.


Venerable Anne Catherine Emmerich (yeah yeah I know...) in her vision of Jesus' descent into Hell saw both the good and bad thieves in Abraham's Bosom.

http://christtotheworld.blogspot.com/201...erich.html
"There are in truth three states of the converted: the beginning,  the middle and the perfection. In the beginning, they experience the charms of sweetness; in the middle, the contests of temptation; and in the end, the fullness of perfection."
-- Pope St. Gregory

“One day, through the Rosary and the Scapular, Our Lady will save the world.”
-- attributed to Saint Domenic
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#10
Not a theological statement, just a very moving poem, one of my favourites.

Limbo

The ancient greyness shifted
Suddenly and thinned
Like mist upon the moors
Before a wind.
An old, old prophet lifted
A shining face and said:
“He will be coming soon.
The Son of God is dead;
He died this afternoon.”


A murmurous excitement stirred all souls.
they wondered if they dreamed-
Save one old man who seemed
Not even to have heard.


And Moses standing,
Hushed them all to ask
If any had a welcome song prepared.
If not, would David take the task?
And if they cared
Could not the three young children sing
The Benedicite, the canticle of praise
They made when God kept them from perishing
In the fiery blaze?


A breath of spring surprised them,
Stilling Moses’ words.
No one could speak, remembering
The first fresh flowers,
The little singing birds.
Still others thought of fields new ploughed


Or apple trees
All blossom-boughed.
Or some, the way a dried bed fills
With water
Laughing down green hills.
The fisherfolk dreamed of the foam
On bright blue seas.
The one old man who had not stirred
Remembered home.


And there He was
Splendid as the morning sun and fair
As only God is fair.
And they, confused with joy,
Knelt to adore
Seeing that He wore
Five crimson stars
He never had before.


No canticle at all was sung.
None toned a psalm, or raised a greeting song,
A silent man alone
Of all that throng
Found tongue-
Not any other.
Close to His heart
When embrace was done,
Old Joseph said,
“How is your Mother,
How is your Mother, Son?”


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The Reign Of Mary -Vol. XXV, No 76
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

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