New Biography on Pope Benedict XVI
#11
(12-12-2020, 11:30 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(12-12-2020, 09:32 PM)NSMSSS Wrote: Fair enough, though it's a much finer state of affairs than Popes Paul VI, John Paul I and John Paul II who all did little or nothing for the cause of the TLM.

To put John Paul I in the same box with Paul the Pusillanimous and John Paul the Small is a bit unfair. He only reigned for 33 days. Not exactly long enough to have any idea of what he might have done.

My guess is he would have probably continued things along the same line as JPII. It's highly doubtful a man who embraced Vatican II would think along the lines of Lefevbre.
[-] The following 1 user Likes austenbosten's post:
  • SeekerofChrist
Reply
#12
(12-13-2020, 12:14 AM)austenbosten Wrote:
(12-12-2020, 11:30 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(12-12-2020, 09:32 PM)NSMSSS Wrote: Fair enough, though it's a much finer state of affairs than Popes Paul VI, John Paul I and John Paul II who all did little or nothing for the cause of the TLM.

To put John Paul I in the same box with Paul the Pusillanimous and John Paul the Small is a bit unfair. He only reigned for 33 days. Not exactly long enough to have any idea of what he might have done.

My guess is he would have probably continued things along the same line as JPII.  It's highly doubtful a man who embraced Vatican II would think along the lines of Lefevbre.

Indeed.  We'll never know for certain what John Paul I would have done but the historical evidence seems clear enough.  He supported Vatican II and was elected by the cardinals who had elected or been appointed by John XXIII and Paul VI.  Seems pretty unlikely he would have been like the great Marcel Lefebvre or a giant like Pius X.  Anything less than a man like those great men and there's no way John Paul I would have reversed the insane liberal Catholic revolution that followed Vatican II.  He could have even been sympathetic to a more conservative take on Vatican II, and yet all that would mean is that he would have been more like Benedict XVI.  A few token victories and then, well, we all know what followed a conservative NO pope like Benedict XVI.
"For the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but traditionalists."
- Pope St. Pius X

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables."
- 2 Timothy 4:3-4

"Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity."
- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
[-] The following 1 user Likes SeekerofChrist's post:
  • austenbosten
Reply
#13
And yet there were rumours at the time that he had been murdered to prevent him from undoing the Council.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
[-] The following 1 user Likes jovan66102's post:
  • Ambrosiano
Reply
#14
(12-13-2020, 01:46 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: And yet there were rumours at the time that he had been murdered to prevent him from undoing the Council.
。。。as well as attempting to clean up the Vatican Bank's supposed dirty Mafia laundry.
[-] The following 3 users Like Ambrosiano's post:
  • Dmorgan, HailGilbert, jovan66102
Reply
#15
(12-13-2020, 03:06 AM)Ambrosiano Wrote:
(12-13-2020, 01:46 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: And yet there were rumours at the time that he had been murdered to prevent him from undoing the Council.
。。。as well as attempting to clean up the Vatican Bank's supposed dirty Mafia laundry.

And I heard he was killed because he was soft on moral teachings like contraception (according to liberals, who like rumors as much as anyone).  I'm not sure a rumor should actually be given much consideration, unless there is actual evidence for it.  From what I've heard of John Paul I, he was soft on contraception, having written to Paul VI in favor of allowing the BC pill and he was a proponent of "religious liberty" as found in Dignitatis Humanae.  At best, he seemed very much like a conservative NO-type.
"For the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but traditionalists."
- Pope St. Pius X

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables."
- 2 Timothy 4:3-4

"Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity."
- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
[-] The following 1 user Likes SeekerofChrist's post:
  • austenbosten
Reply
#16
(12-13-2020, 08:18 AM)SeekerofChrist Wrote:
(12-13-2020, 03:06 AM)Ambrosiano Wrote:
(12-13-2020, 01:46 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: And yet there were rumours at the time that he had been murdered to prevent him from undoing the Council.
。。。as well as attempting to clean up the Vatican Bank's supposed dirty Mafia laundry.

And I heard he was killed because he was soft on moral teachings like contraception (according to liberals, who like rumors as much as anyone).  I'm not sure a rumor should actually be given much consideration, unless there is actual evidence for it.  From what I've heard of John Paul I, he was soft on contraception, having written to Paul VI in favor of allowing the BC pill and he was a proponent of "religious liberty" as found in Dignitatis Humanae.  At best, he seemed very much like a conservative NO-type.

His name was "John-" freaking "Paul" that doesn't ring any bells on how the man would act when he couldn't decide which V2 modernist he liked best Paul VI or John XXIII.

I'm sure JPI would have agreed with this quote from the Pope's Angelus.

Quote:And Israeli Premier recalls that the Jewish people once passed difficult moments and addressed the Lord complaining and saying: “You have forsaken us, you have forgotten us!” “No!”—He replied through Isaiah the Prophet—”can a mother forget her own child? But even if it should happen, God will never forget his people”.

Also we who are here have the same sentiments; we are the objects of undying love on the part of God. We know: he has always his eyes open on us, even when it seems to be dark. He is our father; even more he is our mother. He does not want to hurt us, He wants only to do good to us, to all of us. If children are ill, they have additional claim to be loved by their mother. And we too, if by chance we are sick with badness, on the wrong track, have yet another claim to be loved by the Lord.















^ If that sounded like Francis, you might be shocked to know these are actually the words of John Paul I.
[-] The following 2 users Like austenbosten's post:
  • Dmorgan, SeekerofChrist
Reply
#17
(12-12-2020, 11:30 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: John Paul I... reigned for 33 days. Not exactly long enough to have any idea of what he might have done.[/size]

No, but it's not as if he came in itching to restore to Tridentine Mass.  The brief amount of what he did say during his time as pope doesn't really inspire one with much confidence that he would have done much.

Getting back on topic, I'm not familiar with much of Seewald's work, but it really seems like he has an axe to grind here based on the article linked, and that's why I'm not really interested in the book.  It's one thing if you want to write a tell-all about a deceased figure, but to do so about a pope emeritus while still living, like him or not, seems in poor taste.  Benedict is not going to issue a reply in any case.

By no means was Benedict XVI one amongst the greatest popes, but in the darkness that has clouded the Church post-Vatican II, he has shown the greatest light.  What "anti-Modernist" opposition he may have had, by the time of The Ratzinger Report, he clearly knew something was amiss in the Church and modernism was part of that problem.

We could still be in the dark days of John Paul II and certainly even darker ones under the current pontiff had Benedict XVI not done what he did to restore tradition to the public sphere of the Roman Catholic Church.  The TLM is flourishing, and it's because of Benedict XVI's Summorum Pontificum.  I can accept that the situation was getting so bad in the Church and that the SSPX was gaining traction because of it.  Perhaps if nothing had happened, the Roman rite would have ended up disintegrating so much that the SSPX, being the most prominent of promoters of the TLM, would have moved into a mainstream position even with their canonically irregularities unresolved.  That's not what ended up happening, though.  Benedict XVI greatly opened the celebration of the TLM that allows the faithful to assist at it where priests who are canonically regular are offering the Mass. By making a way with everything "above board", the faithful have more easily been able to be drawn to it and develop a love for it.

I, too, would love to have seen Benedict XVI go even further.  I would have loved to have seen him suspend the Novus Ordo and quash it to a forgotten footnote of history.  Perhaps a future pope will do that.  In either case, what he did do could very well have laid the groundwork for such a future action.
[-] The following 1 user Likes NSMSSS's post:
  • Pandora
Reply
#18
It's not like he wrote the book based on what he dug up, he's basically BXVI's personally chosen interviewer at this point.
Ave Christus Rex!
Reply
#19
(12-13-2020, 11:21 AM)NSMSSS Wrote:
(12-12-2020, 11:30 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: John Paul I... reigned for 33 days. Not exactly long enough to have any idea of what he might have done.[/size]

No, but it's not as if he came in itching to restore to Tridentine Mass.  The brief amount of what he did say during his time as pope doesn't really inspire one with much confidence that he would have done much.

I never said that we know for certain, just that, given a reign of 33 days, we cannot KNOW.

Don't forget that when Blessed Pius IX, of Syllabus of Errors fame, was elected Pope, the Freemasons rejoiced, much as they did in 2013. He was a thoroughgoing liberal and they thought they finally had THEIR man in the Chair of Peter. Things happened to change his mind.

All I'm saying about JPI is that we'll never know how his Papacy might have turned out. He might have been 'Francis: The Prequel', or he might have turned out to be another Bld Pius or a St Pius X, Hammer of the Modernists, but we'll never know.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
[-] The following 2 users Like jovan66102's post:
  • Dmorgan, HailGilbert
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)