Why the Strong Anti-Western Bias Among Orthodox?
#81
(03-24-2021, 10:05 PM)Evangelium Wrote: Relations may improve, but the Orthodox are never going to agree to reunion with Rome.

I have come to this sad conclusion myself as well. That is why Our Lady of Fatima calls for the Consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart, which will cause their Conversion.  The Schismatic mentality can only be cured by a genuine Conversion of the hearts, minds, and wills of the Orthodox. May Our Lord convert them soon.
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#82
(03-24-2021, 10:17 PM)PilgrimMichelangelo Wrote:
(03-24-2021, 10:05 PM)Evangelium Wrote: Relations may improve, but the Orthodox are never going to agree to reunion with Rome.

I have come to this sad conclusion myself as well. That is why Our Lady of Fatima calls for the Consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart, which will cause their Conversion.  The Schismatic mentality can only be cured by a genuine Conversion of the hearts, minds, and wills of the Orthodox. May Our Lord convert them soon.

But convert to what exactly if I might ask? Which version of Catholicism? Where is this Catholic unity, free from schism and division that you've discovered?

Also, how are your Traditionalist Catholic friends here any different from us when they condemn the heresies of Rome and the modern popes? Is it because they continue to maintain Eucharistic communion with those they deem heretical? Is that something laudable? Traditionalist Catholics keep insisting we Orthodox have a schismatic mentality and need communion with Pope Francis for our salvation, while they simultaneously despise being in communion with him and condemn him as heretical, so it's a bit confusing. 

Which leads to the question: what exactly is the Catholic definition of "communion"? Is it merely a surface level, superficial reality? Is sharing the same Eucharist with those who you feel do not share your faith something to be valued? Is it paying mere lip service?

You do realize that the Church never maintained Communion with heretics for the sake of unity or charity, or sense of politeness, right? The act of anathema and severing communion was itself an act of charity, so that they might repent of their error and return to communion. Allowing them to continue in error as if all is well in order not to be "mean", would in fact be a false charity.
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#83
(03-25-2021, 09:09 AM)PorphyriosK Wrote: Also, how are your Traditionalist Catholic friends here any different from us when they condemn the heresies of Rome and the modern popes?

Are you interested in the answer or merely arguing?
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#84
(03-24-2021, 10:05 PM)Evangelium Wrote: Relations may improve, but the Orthodox are never going to agree to reunion with Rome.

The ones who are more sincere in their faith in Christ than they are in their Constantinopolitan or Muscovite nationalism might.
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#85
(03-25-2021, 09:13 AM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(03-25-2021, 09:09 AM)PorphyriosK Wrote: Also, how are your Traditionalist Catholic friends here any different from us when they condemn the heresies of Rome and the modern popes?

Are you interested in the answer or merely arguing?

I have never come here to do anything other than correct wrong statements and beliefs about the Orthodox faith and to point out contradictions in logic regarding papal doctrines.

I have absolutely no wish to be "mean" in my approach, and I by no means hate Roman Catholics in any way, shape, or form. I love Catholics as people and maintain close friendships and relations with wonderful Catholic believers. I pray for them. It is the heretical contradictions of the papal system itself that bind them and keep them in a state of spiritual distress and agony. Instead of clinging to Christ and the Apostolic, Catholic Faith of the Holy Fathers, they cling to the delusions of false female mystics and apparitions which promise blessings and earthly peace, always just around the corner.
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#86
(03-25-2021, 09:20 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(03-24-2021, 10:05 PM)Evangelium Wrote: Relations may improve, but the Orthodox are never going to agree to reunion with Rome.

The ones who are more sincere in their faith in Christ than they are in their Constantinopolitan or Muscovite nationalism might.

Again, just more resorts to bravado and tough talk when actual points can't be answered.

It is faith in Christ Himself and His Church that forbids communion with heresy and those anathematized by the Church. Read through the anathemas repeated on the Sunday of Orthodoxy. Unity of faith matters. Where there is no unity of faith, what possible "communion" can there be? Union out of niceness while ignoring contradictions in belief would be a false union.

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#87
(03-25-2021, 09:42 AM)PorphyriosK Wrote: I have never come here to do anything other than correct wrong statements and beliefs about the Orthodox faith and to point out contradictions in logic regarding papal doctrines.

A heretic pope wouldn't diminish the authority of his office.

(03-25-2021, 09:42 AM)PorphyriosK Wrote: Instead of clinging to Christ and the Apostolic, Catholic Faith of the Holy Fathers

Christ didn't found 20-someodd quarrelling churches, always in disunity with one another. He founded one, and it's based in Rome.
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#88
(03-25-2021, 09:56 AM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(03-25-2021, 09:42 AM)PorphyriosK Wrote: I have never come here to do anything other than correct wrong statements and beliefs about the Orthodox faith and to point out contradictions in logic regarding papal doctrines.

A heretic pope wouldn't diminish the authority of his office.

(03-25-2021, 09:42 AM)PorphyriosK Wrote: Instead of clinging to Christ and the Apostolic, Catholic Faith of the Holy Fathers

Christ didn't found 20-someodd quarrelling churches, always in disunity with one another.  He founded one, and it's based in Rome.

I admire your zeal, but again you need to read more.

The One Church was always made up of a communion of "churches", with 5 major Apostolic Sees. And in fact, the first millennium Church was overwhelmingly Eastern. All the 7 Ecumenical Councils were held in the East, presided over by the Eastern patriarchates, attended by majority Eastern bishops.

Also, there have been quarrels and schisms from the very beginning (read Acts) and various churches falling in and out of communion with one another. And again you Traditionalists are always quarreling, amongst yourselves, with Byzantine Catholics, with modernist Catholics, and with your own hierarchy. This pretended purity and unity you brag about is a fantasy.
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#89
(03-25-2021, 09:54 AM)PorphyriosK Wrote:
(03-25-2021, 09:20 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(03-24-2021, 10:05 PM)Evangelium Wrote: Relations may improve, but the Orthodox are never going to agree to reunion with Rome.

The ones who are more sincere in their faith in Christ than they are in their Constantinopolitan or Muscovite nationalism might.

Again, just more resorts to bravado and tough talk when actual points can't be answered.

It is faith in Christ Himself and His Church that forbids communion with heresy and those anathematized by the Church. Read through the anathemas repeated on the Sunday of Orthodoxy. Unity of faith matters. Where there is no unity of faith, what possible "communion" can there be? Union out of niceness while ignoring contradictions in belief would be a false union.


If their sincerity of belief precludes union with Rome because of perceived heresy on its part, that's not what I'm arguing against.  I'm suggesting some Orthodox are more interested in the independence of their church from Rome, and that their faith is sometimes founded more on national pride than faith in Christ.  For those who aren't, they might be open to union with Rome at some point if they aren't inclined to view Rome as heretical.

Ex.  I've been hearing a lot about St. Paisios of Mt. Athos lately, so I decided to look into him.  I haven't read much of him yet, so this is still mostly a first impression.  He has a few really interesting soundbite quotes that made me interested in his possible spiritual wisdom.  More recently, I read about a few prophecies he made about how Greece and Turkey were going to go to war, and soon; Greece would win and retake Constantinople, and the city would become a great Christian capital again.  Nothing about calling sinners to repentance (at least in these particular prophecies).  Many Orthodox contradict St. Paul, who said he would only boast in the cross of Christ, by boasting in the former glory and splendor of Constantinople, or Moscow, or Kiev.  Just as some traditionalist Catholics seem to be more interested in boasting in the glory of medieval Western culture.  These are the kind of Orthodox I was criticizing.
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#90
Let's also not forget (and this may have already been addressed) that the overwhelming majority of converts to Orthodoxy are American former protestants. Those people, perhaps hilariously, have no national affiliation to these particular churches. Johnsons are not Russian, no matter how many blini. So their anti-Roman/anti-Western weirdness is totally a LARP.
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