Impurity within Marriage
#11
I actually really connect with Fr. Ripperger's talks regarding the demonic.  It sinks in with me because I am a Catholic convert from a "protestant" upbringing, even though church was the very last priority for my parents growing up.  With that said, ever since I joined the Catholic Church and developing an allegiance to traditional Catholic teaching, I can clearly see the origins of my struggles and am more aware of the diabolical tactics than ever before.  So before I disagree with someone who is deemed well versed in Catholic teachings, especially a Priest, I think it is imperative to examine who they are directing their opinions to, i.e. converts, reverts, protestants, people of other religions, atheists, etc.
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#12
(02-27-2021, 10:55 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: Fr Ripperger preaches the Protestant idea of "generational spirits" and is dead wrong on this.

Ez 18.20 : "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, and the father shall not bear the iniquity of the son."

Dt 24.16 : "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children for the fathers, but every one shall die for his own sin."

Further, the whole notion of generational spirits undermines Baptism including its exorcisms. In fact, it approaches heresy, suggesting the despite Baptism and the exorcisms attached, a soul still have some sin remaining (which Baptism is unable to remove, yet we assert Baptism works ex opere operato).

What is true about the "passing on" of sins, does not need devils or "spirits". People who live badly and do not try to live as Saints do not produce children who will try to live like Saints. Parents who are not striving to stay in the State of Grace so they can always fight for the souls of their children will do a great disservice to their children. Children will pick up on their bad habits, and volia, like Father, like son.

Even if you struggle with sin, struggle, and don't give up the fight. If you fail, fix it, and then do penance, at the very least for your children. In doing this, you will prevent passing on any bad habits, because you will be teaching them good habits.

If your higher driver is genetic, then it is possible the boys will have trouble, but then, you will teach them well as they grow up, and will be sure to not try to keep the innocent by keeping the ignorant. You will teach them to be generous and to never do anything to dishonor their Father in Heaven by sin, and if they do, then they go to that loving Father for His help to fix it.

Do that and you will not "pass" on anything but the best to your children, and will have no regrets. In doing this you will win a high place in heaven, and perhaps in turning the focus to them, you will also help conquer your bad habits.

Keep on fighting. Be assured we're here praying and making sacrifices for you.

If I recall, what Fr Ripperger alludes to isn't the passing on of any sins or iniquities necessarily but rather the open doors that continue through the generations. That isn't the same thing. He even says something very similar to you about fixing it by going to confession and remaining in grace. Some deep-seated inclinations don't go away even after taking all the normative steps.
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#13
(03-02-2021, 11:55 AM)Adventus Wrote: If I recall, what Fr Ripperger alludes to isn't the passing on of any sins or iniquities necessarily but rather the open doors that continue through the generations. That isn't the same thing. He even says something very similar to you about fixing it by going to confession and remaining in grace. Some deep-seated inclinations don't go away even after taking all the normative steps.

He very clearly attributes problems continuing through generations to demonic obsession and the need to expurgate these demons. This is the standard "generational spirits" idea, which he has merely glazed with a quasi-traditional veneer. This is why I mentioned the exorcisms in Baptism. If "generational spirits" are true, then the exorcisms in the traditional rite of Baptism are ineffective, and the Sacrament does not actually remove the soul from Satan's control. The newly baptized soul remains then a slave to the devil in certain ways for which he is not guilty, suggesting Baptism's effects are far more limited.

The issue isn't the sins in one's own life, but in this idea of passing on these sins, or some demons attached to them. The "generational spirit" notion suggests that because one's father was an alcoholic, the reason that Johnny is an alcoholic is because dad's alcoholism was due to a demon and now that demon passed to Johnny. The way out is through "deliverance". This happens through certain prayers of exorcism that the laity get to recite (even though they are not exorcists or trained to take on the devil in this way) ... which you can have in one handy-dandy unapproved collection for three easy payments $9.95.

Does Fr Ripperger also say that one needs to use penance and other means to rid oneself of sins and attachments? Indeed, but there is a degree of shifting the blame in this "generational spirits" idea, which finds zero support in traditional Catholic theology.

Johnny is an alcoholic for many reasons. One is perhaps a genetic predisposition. One is perhaps that his father, as an alcoholic, was not a good and loving father, and so Johnny has turned to the bottle for comfort. Another might be that Johnny was never encouraged by said father to mortify his passions and become a virtuous man. Another might be that the alcoholic father demanded the mother to run the show, and so Johnny is a weak man because he's never seen a strong Catholic example of a man.

It is, of course, possible that there is some demonic obsession of Johnny that pushes him to the bottle, but the rule every decent spiritual writer and theologian gives when it comes to the præternatural and mystical is to assume it is merely natural until there are signs it is not. We don't run to blame problems on the devil, when human malice provides a fine explanation, most especially because then we justify our sins and mistakes by blaming them on the devil, not us.

This is the issue. Not the good recommendations to confess and take the ordinary means.
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#14
(03-02-2021, 10:59 AM)capmchuck Wrote: I actually really connect with Fr. Ripperger's talks regarding the demonic.  It sinks in with me because I am a Catholic convert from a "protestant" upbringing, even though church was the very last priority for my parents growing up.  With that said, ever since I joined the Catholic Church and developing an allegiance to traditional Catholic teaching, I can clearly see the origins of my struggles and am more aware of the diabolical tactics than ever before.  So before I disagree with someone who is deemed well versed in Catholic teachings, especially a Priest, I think it is imperative to examine who they are directing their opinions to, i.e. converts, reverts, protestants, people of other religions, atheists, etc.

It was one of Fr Ripperger's students, who is an FSSP priest who first made me worried about Fr Ripperger.

This priest told me that in De Angelis at the seminary in Denton, Fr Ripperger insisted on giving parts of the class about demons in Latin, and then forbidding the discussion of the materials even to other seminarians who were not in the class. The reason, Fr Ripperger said, is that unless one has the tools necessary to handle this knowledge about the devil and demons, such information risks diabolic influence.

In my own seminary formation before I left, we learned in English, and were not forbidden from discussion, but advised to avoid discussing this and also moral theology with others who were not so trained, because we might cause problems for them who have not the tools to understand. So, despite that it was a different professor and different seminary, the main advice was similar.

Fast-forward 15 years later, Fr Ripperger is doing the exact opposite of the advice he gave to his seminarians (which is why, said this FSSP priest, the FSSP superiors asked their priests not to promote Fr Ripperger's works and talks).

Normally, as you say, I would not call out someone who was more of an expert than myself, but when there are solid reasons to throw up red flags, I think it prudent to do so.
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#15
When it comes to “generational spirits” in a family, I don’t find it hard to believe that certain demons stick around families throughout generations, waiting for a moment to pounce when someone falls into sin. For instance, could it be understood in this sense: if you sin mortally, and, in effect, reject God’s Authority and Protection, the demons have an opening. As for who the demons are? It doesn’t seem unreasonable to me that these ancient spirits stick around families, watching generation after generation in a family — from infancy to old age — sizing us up and trying to figure out our “weakest point”. Spiritual warfare is real, and I imagine the demons we deal with aren’t just arbitrarily roaming around. Perhaps what I’ve just said is gibberish, so certainly correct me if I’m wrong.
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#16
(03-02-2021, 07:18 PM)FultonFan Wrote: When it comes to “generational spirits” in a family, I don’t find it hard to believe that certain demons stick around families throughout generations, waiting for a moment to pounce when someone falls into sin. For instance, could it be understood in this sense: if you sin mortally, and, in effect, reject God’s Authority and Protection, the demons have an opening. As for who the demons are? It doesn’t seem unreasonable to me that these ancient spirits stick around families, watching generation after generation in a family — from infancy to old age — sizing us up and trying to figure out our “weakest point”. Spiritual warfare is real, and I imagine the demons we deal with aren’t just arbitrarily roaming around. Perhaps what I’ve just said is gibberish, so certainly correct me if I’m wrong.

I have no doubt that demons do hang around individuals and families looking for weaknesses. C.S. Lewis posited, as an opinion, that just as God assigns each of us a Guardian Angel, Satan assigns each of us an individual tempter.

But that doesn't seem to be what Fr Ripperger is talking about. He seems to be saying that you can inherit a 'generational spirit', which as MM pointed out means that the exorcisms in the Baptismal Rite are useless at driving out the demons.
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#17
MM, I really think you've got to take these grievances straight to Fr Ripperger and stop dissing him online until you do. How long has it been since you've spoken with him?
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#18
(03-02-2021, 10:39 PM)JacafamalaRedux Wrote: MM, I really think you've got to take these grievances straight to Fr Ripperger and stop dissing him online until you do. How long has it been since you've spoken with him?

About two years ago.

I did try at that point to address the matters and my concerns to him (with the help of that FSSP priest), and I only got a response from a Permanent Deacon who works for his group, which contained a copied e-mail from him saying he does not respond to critics.

If I had a channel in which he would be willing to discuss said matters, I would be happy to do so. Since he refuses to address the elephant in the room, even when approached by knowledgeable persons (he knew I had six years of seminary training) and through contacts he trusted (thus the FSSP priest), I have no other reasonable recourse than to explain my worries about what questionable things he says when people address it.

It is not like I am going around the Internet seeking out to demonize (pardon the pun) Fr Ripperger. As one of the most senior members here, though, I think it important to put in my two cents on this forum when relevant. I also do not bring up critiques when it has nothing to do with the matter at hand.
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#19
(03-02-2021, 09:20 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: But that doesn't seem to be what Fr Ripperger is talking about. He seems to be saying that you can inherit a 'generational spirit', which as MM pointed out means that the exorcisms in the Baptismal Rite are useless at driving out the demons.[/size]

My point is not that demons do not hang around (though they only do so by God's permission) places, people or families, things, etc. That is pretty well established.

My point is that if one "inherits" a demon from his father (or mother) because of their giving into certain sins, and this explains why son falls into said sins, and the cure for this is a set of "deliverance prayers" (which are not proper exorcisms, i.e. done with the authority of the order of Exorcist), and this is after Baptism, then the conclusion is that the exorcisms done with the authority of the order of Exorcist are of less power than "deliverance prayers" and the Church's exorcisms are relatively impotent.
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#20
(03-03-2021, 01:03 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: My point is not that demons do not hang around (though they only do so by God's permission) places, people or families, things, etc. That is pretty well established.

My point is that if one "inherits" a demon from his father (or mother) because of their giving into certain sins, and this explains why son falls into said sins, and the cure for this is a set of "deliverance prayers" (which are not proper exorcisms, i.e. done with the authority of the order of Exorcist), and this is after Baptism, then the conclusion is that the exorcisms done with the authority of the order of Exorcist are of less power than "deliverance prayers" and the Church's exorcisms are relatively impotent.

God's permissive will isn't that they just hang around......but rather, that they are free to influence. Otherwise, what's the point? They could be 1,000 miles away and it would be equally as effective, which is, no effect whatsoever. 

Fr. Ripperger also clearly makes distinctions between a person struggling with something, for other psychological reasons, and generational spirits. In addition, he speaks of it skipping generations as well.

Lastly, isn't the exorcism at baptism to protect and cast out?  

Cast out what?

That certainly leaves room for the possibility that Fr. R speaks of. 

I think what you did in trying to approach him was a good thing, but there are more variables to this to be so dismissive about it. It doesn't have to make what we have available to us relatively impotent. Especially when bringing sin and God's permissive will into the equation. There doesn't need to be a contradiction.

Hopefully Fr. Ripperger can come out with a detailed response on this.
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