Maria Valtorta's Poem of the Man-God.
#11
Did he address the fact that it does not bear an imprimatur, despite the false claims of its supporters? As pointed out, Bishop Roman did not have the Ordinary jurisdiction required to grant an imprimatur when he pretended to do so.

When people lie in support of something, it immediately raises a red flag for me.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
[-] The following 2 users Like jovan66102's post:
  • ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident, MagisterMusicae
Reply
#12
The Book is also big on the Mediatrix of All Graces/Co-Redemptrix Marian doctrine that many believe will be the Fifth Marian Dogma. Right from the first page.

Jovan, the article shows numerous Bishops who have approved the work beside Bp. Danylak.

"To start out, for details on the canonical status of Maria Valtorta's work and what the position of the Church is on her revelations, see: What is the Position of the Church on Maria Valtorta’s Main Work? Also helpful is the article of Dr. Mark Miravalle, S.T.D. (Doctor of Sacred Theology) where he succinctly explains why The Gospel as Revealed to Me / The Poem of the Man-God cannot any longer be considered forbidden to Catholics and why every Catholic is free to read it. He also refutes some of the most popular (flawed) objections to Valtorta's work. His article can be read here: In Response to Various Questions Regarding "The Poem of the Man-God".

Before we list the rebuttals of the major anti-Valtorta articles further below, in a discussion of the orthodoxy of Maria Valtorta's work, it is helpful to briefly list the imprimaturs, episcopal letters of endorsement, and permission to publish by the Vatican that Valtorta's work has received over the years.

1. Pope Pius XII ordered Maria’s main work to be published in 1948 before three eyewitnesses whose audience was documented in the Vatican newspaper the following day. His command to publish her work was corroborated by the testimonies of three ecclesiastical eyewitnesses of notable repute, among them Fr. Corrado Berti, O.S.M. (professor of dogmatic and sacramental theology of the Pontifical Marianum Theological Faculty in Rome from 1939 onward, and Secretary of that Faculty from 1950 to 1959). Fr. Corrado Berti, O.S.M., testifies in his signed testimonial letter written on December 8, 1978, in Rome about Pope Pius XII's command to publish Valtorta's work “just as it is” and his instruction to not remove the references to “visions” and “dictations” when he specifically asked the Pope whether those terms should be removed before publishing.

2. After Fr. Giraudo, O.P., Commissioner of the Holy Office, was handed the signed certifications of three Consultors to the Holy Office, was informed about Pope Pius XII’s previous audience concerning Valtorta’s writings, was given the second critical edition of Valtorta’s work with more than 5,675 scholarly footnotes and appendices by Fr. Berti to explain potentially difficult passages, and after reviewing everything and consulting his superiors, he gave permission for the publication of the second edition in 1961, according to the testimony of Fr. Berti who dealt directly with the Holy Office. Fr. Gabriel Roschini, Consultant of the Holy Office, stated in 1961 that the new critical second edition “was not to be considered to be on the Index, because it was totally renewed, conformed in all to the original, and provided with notes that removed any doubt and which demonstrated the solidity and orthodoxy of the work.”1

3. The official letter of endorsement of the English translation of The Poem of the Man-God by Bishop Roman Danylak, S.T.L., J.U.D., Titular Bishop of Nyssa, is available here: Official Letter of Endorsement of Bishop Roman Danylak (Dated June 24, 2001). The conclusion of his letter states: “This major work of Maria Valtorta, The Poem of the Man-God, is in perfect consonance with the canonical Gospels, with the traditions and the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.”

Bishop Roman Danylak, S.T.L., J.U.D., stated“I have studied The Poem in depth, not only in its English translation, but in the original Italian edition with the critical notes of Fr. Berti. I affirm their theological soundness, and I welcome the scholarship of Fr. Berti and his critical apparatus to the Italian edition of the works. I have further studied in their original Italian the Quaderni or The Notebooks of Maria Valtorta for the years from 1943 to 1950. And I want to affirm the theological orthodoxy of the writings of Maria Valtorta.”

It is to be noted that Bishop Danylak has a License in Sacred Theology and Doctorates in both Canon Law and Civil Law from the Pontifical Lateran University in Rome.

4. The Malayalam translation of Maria Valtorta’s work The Poem of the Man-God was granted an imprimatur by Bishop (later Archbishop) Soosa Pakiam M. of Trivandrum, India, on March 17, 1993. A photocopy of this signed imprimatur letter is available here: Official Letter of Imprimatur of Bishop Maria Callist Soosa Pakiam (Dated March 17, 1993).

5. In 1992, seven bishops sent warm letters of congratulations to the publisher of the Malayalam translation of The Poem of the Man-God, all of them heartily approving The Poem of the Man-God and its translation and dissemination. These seven bishops include:

• Cardinal Antony Padiyara of Ernakulam-Angamaly
• Archbishop Gregorous, D.D., of Trivandrum
• Bishop Benjamin of Darjeeling
• Bishop D'souza of Pune
• Bishop (later Archbishop) Kundukulam of Trichur
• Bishop Kureethara of Kochi
• Bishop (later Archbishop) Soosa of Trivandrum

Computer-scanned signed original letters of each of these seven bishops' approvals are downloadable and viewable online here: Maria-Valtorta.net Document Library. In his signed letter, Bishop Kureethara wrote, “No flaws in theological or moral matters are seen. On the contrary, I see this as the best work to study more deeply, understand, and interpret the Gospels.” In his signed letter, Bishop Kindukulam wrote, “There is nothing contrary to faith and morals in this work. Blessings for an extensive circulation of the Malayalam translation of this work.”
Rosary Crusade to end Abortion: https://rosarycrusadingarmytoendabortion.home.blog/

"My dear Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your Most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, I hereby offer my whole life to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Together with my life, I place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all my Holy Communions, all my good deeds, all my sacrifices ... https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/
Reply
#13
(03-22-2021, 11:04 PM)XavierSem Wrote: Father pointed me to this evidence of the SSPX's traditional support for the Poem

Archbishop Lefebvre cautioned a group of Carmelites not to read the work, and was against it being promoted. That is found in letter form, and while I am told that Fr François Laisney (one of the early SSPX priests) had a copy of that letter and quoted it in an Angelus "Question and Answers" response. I don't have the specific reference, but I know a priest who spoke to Fr Laisney about it. It would have been in the late 1980s. I don't have those issues to cross-reference.

I'd note that this response shows classic fallacious argumentation to try to weasel out an approbation where it does not exist :

1. Find someone minor who supports the work.
2. Find someone notable who has praised that first person regarding something entirely different.
3. Suggest that this means that Person 2 therefore was fully in favor of what Person 1 said about everything, especially this work.
4. Extend this suggestion to include whatever organization Person 2 was associated with.

I know in speaking to other SSPX priests that Fr Robinson when stationed in Australia was specifically forbidden by his superiors from publicly preaching about or publishing materials on Valtorta. Seems as soon as he was transferred he started promoting it again.

I note also you reference Mr Steven Austin. He was an SSPX seminarian and booted out of the seminary over his Valtorta obsession before even finishing his philosophy years because he would not relent despite the priests instructions to drop the Valtorta stuff. He is not a reliable source, and I think this should demonstrate a huge part of the the problem with Valtortites and their idolatry of this blasphemous and diabolical work.

In my experience Valtortities are on the same level as Feeneyites as regards their obsession and irrationality. Lots of text and drivel to try to squirm about and twist approval and goodness out of something which is, on its face, bad.
Reply
#14
(03-22-2021, 11:22 PM)XavierSem Wrote: Jovan, the article shows numerous Bishops who have approved the work beside Bp. Danylak.

I am not in the least bit interested in how many Bishops have 'approved' it. I am interested in a) if all these Bishops have 'approved' it, why doesn't it have  an imprimatur, properly given by an Ordinary with the authority to do so, and b) why do its supporters lie about it and pretend it has an imprimatur when it doesn't?

It's really simple. The book requires an imprimatur under Canon Law. It doesn't have one. If it's completely orthodox, why?
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
[-] The following 1 user Likes jovan66102's post:
  • MagisterMusicae
Reply
#15
Just insults, slanders and name-calling. We're not "Valtortites", but we believe Jesus spoke to Maria Valtorta.  Don't read the work if you don't want to. It's your loss. For us, we have so many Cardinals, Bishops, Archbishops, Popes like Pius XII, Saints like St. Padre Pio, traditional Clergy like Bp. Williamson and Fr. Robinson etc who support the work and we are free to do so as well.
Rosary Crusade to end Abortion: https://rosarycrusadingarmytoendabortion.home.blog/

"My dear Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your Most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, I hereby offer my whole life to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Together with my life, I place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all my Holy Communions, all my good deeds, all my sacrifices ... https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/
Reply
#16
There has been no 'insults, slanders and name-calling'. So, if you have absolutely no answer to any of our objections and questions, fine. I find that that's usually a bad sign. Medjufraud devotees and Baysiders are exactly the same. 
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
[-] The following 1 user Likes jovan66102's post:
  • MagisterMusicae
Reply
#17
Calling us Valtortites is name-calling. Please discuss decently without such epithets. Also, I think, Jovan, you didn't read the link I gave, or the excerpt I quoted from it.

"4. The Malayalam translation of Maria Valtorta’s work The Poem of the Man-God was granted an imprimatur by Bishop (later Archbishop) Soosa Pakiam M. of Trivandrum, India, on March 17, 1993. A photocopy of this signed imprimatur letter is available here: Official Letter of Imprimatur of Bishop Maria Callist Soosa Pakiam (Dated March 17, 1993)."
Rosary Crusade to end Abortion: https://rosarycrusadingarmytoendabortion.home.blog/

"My dear Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your Most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, I hereby offer my whole life to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Together with my life, I place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all my Holy Communions, all my good deeds, all my sacrifices ... https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/
Reply
#18
(03-23-2021, 12:51 AM)XavierSem Wrote: Just insults, slanders and name-calling. We're not "Valtortites", but we believe Jesus spoke to Maria Valtorta.  Don't read the work if you don't want to. It's your loss. For us, we have so many Cardinals, Bishops, Archbishops, Popes like Pius XII, Saints like St. Padre Pio, traditional Clergy like Bp. Williamson and Fr. Robinson etc who support the work and we are free to do so as well.

Xavier, I wrote nothing about you. I never called you a "Valtortite". I was speaking only of those sad individuals, like Mr Austin (whom I know very well) who let this obsession about Maria Valtorta get in the way of a vocation, state in life, priesthood, family, etc.

The Feeneyites and many Sedevacantists—all amateur unskilled theologians pretending to be experts because they've read a few books—fall into the same sad category of people. They get this bee in their bonnet about their own pet ideas and cannot just focus on the Faith. They have to set up their own obsession as the god that they serve, all the time lying to themselves that they are serving the True God.

Plenty good people can differing opinions without obsess about these things. I know many Sedevacantists, for instance, who hold this opinion, can have a good discussion, but do not take every opportunity to justify themselves and pat themselves on the back for their superior theological prowess. Sadly, though, there are many such souls who are so insecure that they need to lord it over all through their pride.

So, I wrote nothing about you, personally, but if you have decided to take my words personally, and choose to identify yourself an an idol worshiper of a false gospel, that is your choice. I though you were being honest when you simply asked questions and said you wanted our opinions.

Am I wrong in thinking now that, you were not honest in that approach? Were you actually interested in our opinion and learning from what we had to provide, or were you looking to pick a fight, argue, and then feel proud for defending these false gospels? 

It at least does seem, now, that you came here to proselytize for your opinions and idols. If so, at least be honest enough to say that. Don't ask questions and pretend to be interested in answers, when the point was to promote something.

If I am wrong here, though, please help dispel my misunderstanding.
Reply
#19
Magister, it's all right. No offense taken till now, but some of your further insinuations are unseemly. I'm not idol worshiping anything. I'm exercising my Catholic freedom to read a Catholic book which has a Catholic Imprimatur in which I believe Our Lord Jesus speaks to a suffering victim soul. I understand the book provokes strong emotions in both directions. I'm ok with differing opinions or strong disagreement on the subject. My argument is simple: The book has an Imprimatur. It is endorsed by many traditional Bishops and Priests. So we are free to read it or encourage others to read it. It is absurd to call the book an idol. Disagree all you want but please don't say such things which have no basis in reality. I love Mystical City of God too, and that's not an idol either.
Rosary Crusade to end Abortion: https://rosarycrusadingarmytoendabortion.home.blog/

"My dear Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your Most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, I hereby offer my whole life to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Together with my life, I place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all my Holy Communions, all my good deeds, all my sacrifices ... https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/
Reply
#20
(03-23-2021, 01:41 AM)XavierSem Wrote: I'm exercising my Catholic freedom to read a Catholic book which has a Catholic Imprimatur 

But, as both MM and I have pointed out, it does NOT have an imprimatur. It has a 'pretend' imprimatur granted by someone who had no authority whatsoever, under Canon Law, to grant an imprimatur, a point which you seem to be dancing around.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)