How This Crisis Ends
#1
Curious to see your thoughts on how the current Church crisis will end.

https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/5340-how-this-crisis-ends

How This Crisis Ends

Any knowledgeable Catholic recognizes that the Catholic Church is currently in a crisis, the effects of which have been staggering. If one adds up the decline in numbers of baptisms, marriages, and vocations, coupled with the silent apostasy of millions of lapsed and “former” Catholics since the end of Vatican II, the figures would be shocking. Many words have been written about the causes of the crisis and volumes published documenting every last detail of the destruction it has caused. However, to my knowledge, little has been written attempting to explain how the crisis might one day successfully be resolved.

As with most Church crises in the past such as the Arian Crisis and the Great Western Schism, it was hard for Catholics living in those times to envision a way out, and indeed many died not knowing what eventual resolution might take place. History has, of course, shown us how these crises were resolved, but the crisis we face now, like all true crises, is unique and has no exact precedent. Thus, the future is uncertain. We may be tempted, as Catholics in the past no doubt were, to think that our crisis may become permanent, to think extreme and theologically dangerous measures are needed to resolve it, or to, God forbid, throw up our hands in frustration believing the Church has somehow failed.

In this article, I will first show why various proposed solutions to the crisis are deficient or unworkable and then I will attempt to propose what a successful resolution might eventually look like.

Read the rest here.
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#2
Without reading it, I can tell you this Crisis will end with the triumph of Mary's Immaculate Heart.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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#3
(04-04-2021, 08:01 PM)Augustinian Wrote: Without reading it, I can tell you this Crisis will end with the triumph of Mary's Immaculate Heart.

As can I, but how many millions or even billions of souls will be lost in the meantime?
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#4
I have four observations to offer:

1. I see the Remnant website has been revamped.  I like the new look.

2. I could swear that I've seen this article well before April 3, 2021.  Maybe the writer has recycled a portion of his material?

3. I mostly skimmed over it, as it is kind of long and I've had a pretty long day celebrating Our Lord's Resurrection.  That said, it seems to discuss what the author believes are the deficiencies in the solutions to the crisis proposed by conservative NO Catholics, sedevacantists, and sedeprivationists.  He then goes onto list why he thinks the R&R path provides a way forward.  Except that's not quite it, as it mostly seems to rely on a future traditionalist pope infallibly condemning the errors at Vatican II and thereafter.  Frankly, that solution to the crisis is available to pretty much everyone in the traditionalist camp, R&R or not.  Even conservative NO Catholics could affirm that possibility, even if they think more of Vatican II is reconcilable to Catholic Tradition.

4. Overall, not a bad article.  I actually like the Remnant, though I haven't followed their material for probably a year now.
"For the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but traditionalists."
- Pope St. Pius X

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables."
- 2 Timothy 4:3-4

"Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity."
- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
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#5
(04-04-2021, 08:30 PM)ConceptJunkie Wrote:
(04-04-2021, 08:01 PM)Augustinian Wrote: Without reading it, I can tell you this Crisis will end with the triumph of Mary's Immaculate Heart.

As can I, but how many millions or even billions of souls will be lost in the meantime?

The same way that millions of heathens were lost before Christ. Think of the Deluge as well, only 8 Holy souls out of the entire human population were saved. It is not unlike God to allow many to fall into hell, but remember, His Providence inevitably turns the evil into good.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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#6
I read your article.  Your proposed solution depends on the election of a traditionalist pope.  You don't take account of the fact that the college of cardinals has now been overwhelmingly appointed by Pope Francis.  They are likely to elect a successor to Pope Francis very much in his mold.  And he in turn will appoint more liberal cardinals.  And the cycle will continue.

The closest thing we have had to a traditionalist pope is Pope Benedict XVI, but he did not meet your criteria for a pope who would wield his infallibility.

I think your only hope is a liberal who undergoes a conversion to traditionalism.  I believe I've read that Pope Pius IX was widely considered a great liberal hope when he was elected, but he managed to confound these expectations and governed as a traditionalist.

Personally, I think the chances of this happening again are slim.
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#7
(04-04-2021, 11:02 PM)Evangelium Wrote: I read your article.  Your proposed solution depends on the election of a traditionalist pope.  You don't take account of the fact that the college of cardinals has now been overwhelmingly appointed by Pope Francis.  They are likely to elect a successor to Pope Francis very much in his mold.  And he in turn will appoint more liberal cardinals.  And the cycle will continue.

The closest thing we have had to a traditionalist pope is Pope Benedict XVI, but he did not meet your criteria for a pope who would wield his infallibility.

I think your only hope is a liberal who undergoes a conversion to traditionalism.  I believe I've read that Pope Pius IX was widely considered a great liberal hope when he was elected, but he managed to confound these expectations and governed as a traditionalist.

Personally, I think the chances of this happening are slim.

I feel a bit silly, as I did not realize the OP was also the author of the article.
"For the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but traditionalists."
- Pope St. Pius X

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables."
- 2 Timothy 4:3-4

"Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity."
- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
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#8
Itll probably get worse before it gets better. But it will get better eventually.
Daily Rosary pray,
Scapular as She asked,
Little Office at my side,
Until the day I pass.

Through the highest heaven,
To the Almighty Three,
Father, Son, and Spirit,
One same glory be. Amen
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#9
As some have also mentioned your entire solution hinges upon a Traditionalist being elected Pope, which likely isn't going to happen with the current crop of Cardinals.

I should also mention that your solution is exactly the same as the sedevacantist/sedeprivationist solution, which is await for a truly Catholic Pope. I think certain sedevacantists would actually come into the fold should a future Pope denounce the errors of Vatican II plainly and clearly. Your writings and lamenting of the current Church crisis and allusions to the Great Western Schism is very much like what the late Fr Cekada (RIP) and Fr Jenkins discuss. You did seem fair and even-handed with sedes and so I thank you for your charity (I am not a sede BTW, but I'm tired of them getting the beating like some ugly, red-headed, bastard step-child because they simply wish to be in keeping with clear doctrinal teaching and the beauty of the Tridentine Mass as proclaimed in Quo Primum)

There is an overall problem I see and really what I perceive as a contradiction of contradictions. The Church is infallible and indefectible, yet your writing suggests that Vatican II caused a defection (I'm not saying it hasn't caused a mess) of sorts. If the Church defected, then how can the Church remain perfect? The only answer would indeed mean that sedevacantism is true or otherwise Catholicism is false and Eastern Orthodoxy is correct. Also you use terms to describe the liberal members of the Church (no doubt Francis approved bishops) as Neo-Modernists, but Modernism was condemned in Pascendi Domini Gregis was it not? If they are Modernists then they are heretics and ipso facto are no longer members of the Body of Christ and thus cannot be true bishops (here we go with the sedevacant/sedeprivate theories).


Also in regards to your claim that John XXII attempted to introduce novelity, I wish to introduce something to that claim. All credit for the passage below given to NovusOrdoWatch. (Again, to reiterate, I am not a sedevacantist)


Quote:St. Bernard [Doctor of the Church, 1090-1153] often taught that deceased just persons immediately after death will obtain immense happiness, but not the beatific vision until the resurrection [of their bodies].

John XXII, the Supreme Pontiff, followed him almost to the letter, and the Friars Minor followed him, as is generally reported. He held that immediately after death some reward is given to the just, like seeing already the humanity of Christ in heaven, and that the wicked are punished in hell in some way; but before the final judgment that neither the face-to-face vision of God is granted to the blessed nor the punishment of fire to the damned.

However, he taught this as a private teacher, not as Pontiff, and he held it theoretically or for the sake of debate, thinking that he could be deceived in these matters and permitting others to think differently until the question should be decided authoritatively. Hence he took care to have the matter studied by the Doctors, and frequently summoning debates in his presence on this point, he was prepared to abandon his opinion if it was shown to be against the faith. Indeed, on the day before his death he ordered a declaration of the true doctrine in the presence of all the Cardinals, etc. He said that previously he thought differently about this matter by pondering it and speaking about it. In this way he prepared the way for his successor, Benedict XII, to proclaim a definition of the true teaching [see Denz. 530-531].

(Fr. Joseph F. Sagüés, S.J., Sacrae Theologiae Summa IVB: On the Last Things, trans. by Fr. Kenneth Baker, S.J. [original Latin published by BAC, 1956; English published by Keep the Faith, 2016], n. 30; italics given; underlining added.)
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#10
The merits of the article aside, it is not a good look for a new member to be swooping in and in his first post to self-promote content elsewhere.

It's somewhat ungentlemanly or at least discourteous to be a newcomer and walk into a party/discussion and announce, "Hey guys, just a heads up, I'm having a party at my house if anyone wants to stop by!"

Hopefully, the author and newcomer will also spend some time at this party and not just use his account for free advertising.

As regards the solution to this crisis, it seems well beyond any practical human solution to propose possible methods of solution, and in the end these do not matter much. We have the duty to worry about the salvation of our souls, those of our families, and our daily duty of state. Doing that will bring about the best possible success of those who will have a more central role in the solution.

Speculation is fun, but often is a distraction from what really matters, which is our own spiritual and moral life.
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