How This Crisis Ends
#11
(04-05-2021, 04:47 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: As regards the solution to this crisis, it seems well beyond any practical human solution to propose possible methods of solution, and in the end these do not matter much. We have the duty to worry about the salvation of our souls, those of our families, and our daily duty of state. Doing that will bring about the best possible success of those who will have a more central role in the solution.

Speculation is fun, but often is a distraction from what really matters, which is our own spiritual and moral life.

AMEN
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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#12
(04-05-2021, 04:47 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: Speculation is fun, but often is a distraction from what really matters, which is our own spiritual and moral life.

Are you saying that I have to fulfill the duties of my state in life, and I can't sit around daydreaming about Cardinal Sarah being elected Pius XIII?

This is ridiculous, and I demand to speak with your manager.
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#13
(04-05-2021, 09:55 AM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(04-05-2021, 04:47 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: Speculation is fun, but often is a distraction from what really matters, which is our own spiritual and moral life.

Are you saying that I have to fulfill the duties of my state in life, and I can't sit around daydreaming about Cardinal Sarah being elected Pius XIII?

This is ridiculous, and I demand to speak with your manager.

Even then, I think if Cardinal Sarah, Arinze, Burke, or were elected, they would prove to be a major disappointment as Trump fans found out just how well-oiled the politick Machine was.

Every Pope going back to JPII I remember was hired to "reform the Curia" and it's about as much of a joke of a pipe dream as us electing the President to "deal with the public debt."
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#14
(04-05-2021, 10:28 AM)austenbosten Wrote: Even then, I think if Cardinal Sarah, Arinze, Burke, or were elected, they would prove to be a major disappointment as Trump fans found out just how well-oiled the politick Machine was.

Every Pope going back to JPII I remember was hired to "reform the Curia" and it's about as much of a joke of a pipe dream as us electing the President to "deal with the public debt."

Yeah, we often forget just how entrenched bureaucracies can be.  Lots of folks, often very powerful, benefit (for various reasons) from the status quo in any organization.  This is true whether it is a government, a corporation, or the divinely instituted Church of Christ.  The idea of reforming them is usually just a bad joke, as it rarely happens.  This is also why we can all cite examples of cardinals, bishops, converts, etc., who say variations of "the Catholic Church must be divine or else all the corrupt churchmen throughout the ages would have surely destroyed it." Just as God preserved His Church during Roman persecutions, Borgia popes, and Napoleonic occupation, so too, will He preserve Her now.
"For the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but traditionalists."
- Pope St. Pius X

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables."
- 2 Timothy 4:3-4

"Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity."
- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
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#15
(04-05-2021, 10:54 AM)SeekerofChrist Wrote:
(04-05-2021, 10:28 AM)austenbosten Wrote: Even then, I think if Cardinal Sarah, Arinze, Burke, or were elected, they would prove to be a major disappointment as Trump fans found out just how well-oiled the politick Machine was.

Every Pope going back to JPII I remember was hired to "reform the Curia" and it's about as much of a joke of a pipe dream as us electing the President to "deal with the public debt."

Yeah, we often forget just how entrenched bureaucracies can be.  Lots of folks, often very powerful, benefit (for various reasons) from the status quo in any organization.  This is true whether it is a government, a corporation, or the divinely instituted Church of Christ.  The idea of reforming them is usually just a bad joke, as it rarely happens.  This is also why we can all cite examples of cardinals, bishops, converts, etc., who say variations of "the Catholic Church must be divine or else all the corrupt churchmen throughout the ages would have surely destroyed it." Just as God preserved His Church during Roman persecutions, Borgia popes, and Napoleonic occupation, so too, will He preserve Her now.

In otherwords you cannot reform a hospital comprised entirely of butchers.

Trump realized this way too late and that's why in 2020 he demanded resignation letters from the entire WH staff.

The next Pope, as the OP said ----who hasn't posted anything since his 1 post, will need to clean house by demanding resignations and even then those bishops will need to follow in a similar manner with their own dioceses.

The reason younger NO priests are generally good is because Benedict XVI did reform the seminaries and reintroduce classical instructions. Now from younger priests you tend to hear more interesting homilies than the usual "Please shoot me in the face now!" Boooooooooring "Jesus loves you, he loves me, the Gospel is about love, love, love... All you need is love, love. Love is all you need...and in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make."
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#16
(04-05-2021, 11:06 AM)austenbosten Wrote: "Jesus loves you, he loves me, the Gospel is about love, love, love... All you need is love, love. Love is all you need...and in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make."

Imagine if they had based their movement on pop culture from a different decade.

"As you can clearly see, smoking in the boys room is analogous to sloth..."

"As Uzzah learned, you can't touch this..."

"When you are called home at the end of this life, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here..."
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#17
(04-05-2021, 11:12 AM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(04-05-2021, 11:06 AM)austenbosten Wrote: "Jesus loves you, he loves me, the Gospel is about love, love, love... All you need is love, love. Love is all you need...and in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make."

Imagine if they had based their movement on pop culture from a different decade.

"As you can clearly see, smoking in the boys room is analogous to sloth..."

"As Uzzah learned, you can't touch this..."

"When you are called home at the end of this life, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here..."

ROTFL!  I'm glad I wasn't drinking my morning coffee as I read this.
"For the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but traditionalists."
- Pope St. Pius X

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables."
- 2 Timothy 4:3-4

"Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity."
- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
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#18
(04-05-2021, 11:12 AM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(04-05-2021, 11:06 AM)austenbosten Wrote: "Jesus loves you, he loves me, the Gospel is about love, love, love... All you need is love, love. Love is all you need...and in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make."

Imagine if they had based their movement on pop culture from a different decade.

"As you can clearly see, smoking in the boys room is analogous to sloth..."

"As Uzzah learned, you can't touch this..."

"When you are called home at the end of this life, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here..."
Oh CJAMP...I can see the female cantor now with the upsidedown Hitler salute.

"Go Forth, the Mass has ended...So gather up your jackets and move out to the exits. I hope you have found a friend. Closing time...time for you to go out to the places you will be from...Closing time...every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. "


"If you could only see the way she loves me, then maybe you will understand...why I pray these beads of love and meditate on these luminous mysteries."

"With the candles out. Less dangerous. Here we are now, Heaven praise us, we feel holy, and contagious. "


Ugh it's fun, but I shudder at the thought of my generation doing this. Though a priest did say in a homily about "Netflix and chill". Yikes! Yeah bless his heart, he sincerely thought it meant to wind down watching a movie. I just didn't have the courage to correct him on what that term actually meant.
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#19
(04-05-2021, 11:21 AM)SeekerofChrist Wrote:
(04-05-2021, 11:12 AM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(04-05-2021, 11:06 AM)austenbosten Wrote: "Jesus loves you, he loves me, the Gospel is about love, love, love... All you need is love, love. Love is all you need...and in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make."

Imagine if they had based their movement on pop culture from a different decade.

"As you can clearly see, smoking in the boys room is analogous to sloth..."

"As Uzzah learned, you can't touch this..."

"When you are called home at the end of this life, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here..."

ROTFL!  I'm glad I wasn't drinking my morning coffee as I read this.

Seriously this needs to be it's own thread under fun and games.
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#20
Good comments.

The purpose of the article was to propose that there is a way out of this crisis and it is resolvable. The irony is that the basic neo-modernist aversion to infallibility kept and is keeping the door open to a future restoration. The thesis of the article would not fit with the sedevacantist thesis, however, as a future sedeprivationist pope would have to declare his "x" # of predecessors invalid, which would set up an unworkable paradigm for the future of the Church. As for the Neo-Catholics, while they would be forced to go along with the future pope's infallible decrees, their entire post-Vatican II apologetics paradigm would be turned on its head as all of their voluminous justifications of the Vatican II novelties would be jettisoned to the trash bin.

Thus, there is a solution to the crisis. I agree with some of the posters that currently it seems unlikely for a Tradition minded pope to be elected, however it was also highly unlikely that Pius X would be elected. Also I believe Pius IX was seen as a liberal before he became pope. The good news is that I believe this particularly straight forward resolution will be available to this future pope whenever that time comes. The times we are living in seem to be similar to times in the Church where heresy or errors were lingering and gaining ground but before the Church had a chance to infallibly condemn them. Our times are slightly different, however, in that the popes themselves seem to encourage or participate in these errors. This part is similar to John XXII's position on when souls see the Beatific Vision. His position was widely seen as incorrect and against Tradition and the Church was in turmoil over the matter until the next pope settled the matter infallibly after his death.

In any case, the article was meant to bring hope to many Traditionalists who see the crisis as unresolvable under the current Catholic Church paradigm, and as a result are either: leaving the Church, becoming sedevacantists, or seeking shelter in Orthodoxy.
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