How This Crisis Ends
#41
(04-06-2021, 01:12 PM)Evangelium Wrote: I was trying to make a point in response to Mr. Jackson's article linked in the OP before the topic was derailed.  My point is that the Church has taught on faith and morals since Vatican II.  In doing so, the Church has at least sometimes exercised the ordinary and universal magisterium.  The ordinary and universal magisterium is infallible.  Therefore Mr. Jackson is not correct when he writes that the Church has not issued infallible teaching since Vatican II.

Compare Ordinatio Sacerdotalis with Fratelli Tutti and prepare a list of each document's infallible doctrinal developments pertaining to faith and morals.
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#42
No.  Reread my post.  I wrote "at least sometimes."  That means not all the time.
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#43
(04-06-2021, 01:50 PM)Evangelium Wrote: No.  Reread my post.  I wrote "at least sometimes."  That means not all the time.

Provide any example of a magisterial teaching issued after V2 that is not redundant--any example of a development of doctrine rather than a mere reiteration of existing doctrine.
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#44
The teaching of Pope Francis on the inadmissibility of the death penalty.
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#45
(04-06-2021, 02:03 PM)Evangelium Wrote: The teaching of Pope Francis on the inadmissibility of the death penalty.

Excellent example.

You're a lawyer, right?  You understand the power of words and the importance of word choice.

Why do you think the word "inadmissible" was chosen rather than to use a word that clearly communicates a moral judgment?
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#46
It sounds like a moral judgment to me.
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#47
(04-06-2021, 02:46 PM)Evangelium Wrote: It sounds like a moral judgment to me.

Moral judgments use words like "evil" and "sin".  You may want it to be a moral judgment, but the text doesn't support that conclusion.
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#48
(04-06-2021, 02:03 PM)Evangelium Wrote: The teaching of Pope Francis on the inadmissibility of the death penalty.

It's not from the Magisterium if it contradicts the Magisterium.

How can an infallible authority correct itself if it were infallible, and the Magisterium has previously clearly taught that the death penalty is morally acceptable at least in certain circumstances, and then, even a good thing.

For example, Pope St Innocent I, Ad Exsuperium :

Quote:Power was granted by God, and to avenge some crime the power of the sword was permitted; thus, he who carries out this vengeance is God's minister. Thereupon, in what way can we condemn a practice that all consider as permitted by God? We uphold, therefore, what has been observed until now, in order not to alter the discipline and so that we may not appear to act contrary to God's authority.

Pope Leo X also infallibly condemned Luther's claim that "the burning of heretics is against the will of God," in Exsurge Domine. This means that the Church holds that at least the burning of some heretics was not against the will of God, and so that the death penalty in certain cases can be morally good and the will of God.

So, if Pope Francis' teaching represents a magisterial "development of doctrine" then you have utterly destroyed the idea of the magisterium being infallible. If the magisterium is infallible, then your example does not work.
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#49
(04-06-2021, 02:50 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: Pope Leo X also infallibly condemned Luther's claim that "the burning of heretics is against the will of God," in Exsurge Domine. This means that the Church holds that at least the burning of some heretics was not against the will of God, and so that the death penalty in certain cases can be morally good and the will of God.

The good old days...
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#50
I understand that this must be very difficult for you.

I have difficulty with the development of the teaching on usury.
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