Good Sources which Examine and Critique the Second Vatican Council
#1
I'm looking for good material pro and contra. 

If anyone knows anything that would examine the Second Vatican Council and the subsequent reforms, as well as traditionalist responses after the council and would be able to recommend resources which are good and professional (i.e. not blogposts by anonymous or random traditionalists or liberals).
"Especially will I do this if the Lord make known to me that you come together man by man in common through grace, individually, in one faith, and in Jesus Christ... so that you obey the bishop and the presbytery with an undivided mind, breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote to prevent us from dying, but which causes that we should live for ever in Jesus Christ." St. Ignatius of Antioch

"But Polycarp... waving his hand towards them, while with groans he look up to heaven, said, 'Away with the Atheists.'" Martyrdom of Polycarp
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#2
You might start with 'The Rhine Flows Into the Tiber', by Fr Ralph Wiltgen, SVD. It's available from TAN under the title 'The Inside Story of Vatican II'.

Wikipedia has this to say about the author and the book:

Wiltgen was present in Rome during the sessions of Vatican II. Given the poor performance by Vatican Press Office, Wiltgen started his own office called "Divine Word News Service" that had 3100 subscribers in 108 countries. 

He is especially famous because of his account of the proceedings of the Second Vatican Council. He holds the theory that the council was a theological dispute that pitted the churches of the countries where the Rhine flows (Austria, Germany, France, Switzerland, Netherlands and Belgium, which were more liberal), against other churches (Spanish-speaking, Portuguese-speaking, English-speaking and Italian, which were more traditionalist). He took the name of the book from a phrase by 2nd-century Roman writer Juvenal "It seems as if the Orontes flows into the Tiber", complaining of too much cultural influence from Syria into Rome. The book received the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur in 1966 by later cardinal Terence Cooke though many members of the Church appeared under a grim light.
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#3
Iota Unum: A Study of Changes in the Catholic Church in the Twentieth Century, by Romano Amerio.
The Gospel is traditional.
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#4
Why do you need to critique the Second Vatican Council?
what do you hope to accomplish by this?
are there not other obligations, family commitments or poor people you could be serving other than taking time to critique a Church Council?
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#5
(04-07-2021, 08:32 PM)Jerry Towns Wrote: Why do you need to critique the Second Vatican Council?
what do you hope to accomplish by this?
are there not other obligations, family commitments or poor people you could be serving other than taking time to critique a Church Council?

He asked for sources both for and against it. Keeping a peasant's mindset of Church politics isn't a bad thing but are you saying trying to understand the most recent Church Council is a bad thing?
With no king to rule me I owe my fealty only to God.
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#6
(04-06-2021, 03:07 PM)Justin Tertius Wrote: I'm looking for good material pro and contra. 

If anyone knows anything that would examine the Second Vatican Council and the subsequent reforms, as well as traditionalist responses after the council and would be able to recommend resources which are good and professional (i.e. not blogposts by anonymous or random traditionalists or liberals).
Marcel Lefebvre, They Have Uncrowned Him and Open Letter to Confused Catholics
Fr. Saba Shofany, The Melkites at the Vatican Council II (note, Melkite theologians are very biased in favor as they overlook the destruction of the Western liturgy from the Council)
Peter Kwasniewski's Noble Beauty has a very sober approach to the Council
Bp. Athanasius Schneider's interview with Diane Montagna, Christy's Vincit, goes into it a little bit and also has more ironic familiarity with the Orthodox than the Melkites seem to have
https://historyofnewengland.blogspot.com/?m=1
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#7
(04-08-2021, 05:53 AM)newenglandsun Wrote:
(04-06-2021, 03:07 PM)Justin Tertius Wrote: I'm looking for good material pro and contra. 

If anyone knows anything that would examine the Second Vatican Council and the subsequent reforms, as well as traditionalist responses after the council and would be able to recommend resources which are good and professional (i.e. not blogposts by anonymous or random traditionalists or liberals).
Marcel Lefebvre, They Have Uncrowned Him and Open Letter to Confused Catholics
Fr. Saba Shofany, The Melkites at the Vatican Council II (note, Melkite theologians are very biased in favor as they overlook the destruction of the Western liturgy from the Council)
Peter Kwasniewski's Noble Beauty has a very sober approach to the Council
Bp. Athanasius Schneider's interview with Diane Montagna, Christy's Vincit, goes into it a little bit and also has more ironic familiarity with the Orthodox than the Melkites seem to have
I should also add Aidan Nichols's works into the mix as well as Yves Congar's journals.
Lefebvre and Congar both played key roles at the Council so anything by them is good on the subject and Henri de Lubac is also a significant source.
https://historyofnewengland.blogspot.com/?m=1
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#8
I would add that while Peter Kwasniewski has written a good reminder to Catholics about what the Mass should be, he is a bit angry and that should be kept in mind when reading either his book or his posts.

One other thing to keep in mind is that Vatican II did not authorize the removal of statues, Communion/Altar rails or the removal of anything else. Only recently has the Tabernacle been returned to its rightful place. I have seen before and after photos of Churches where those things have been put back. And I have read a few lame comments from those who claim to have been involved with some of those 1960s "renovations" who say they thought they were doing the right thing. The question is: On whose authority?
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#9
(04-08-2021, 11:25 AM)AlanK82 Wrote: ...he is a bit angry and that should be kept in mind when reading either his book or his posts.

Ah, yes.  Anger.  Be careful of those prone to anger, especially the righteous kind.

"And looking round about on them with anger, being grieved for the blindness of their hearts, he saith to the man: Stretch forth thy hand. And he stretched it forth: and his hand was restored unto him." Matthew 3:5.
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#10
Well, who can't be angry ever? My point is: there is a difference between scholarship, mixed scholarship, meaning mixed with some anger, and near useless internet posts that follow the TLDR (too long, didn't read) - only the lazy approach.

The internet has dragged down worthwhile conversation to a line or two -- and without proper context.
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