Can converts receive the Sacrament of Confession?
#21
(04-13-2021, 05:54 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(04-13-2021, 05:20 PM)Little Fish Wrote: - My husband is a catechist at a NO parish, and I believe that they instruct former Protestants entering the Church at the Easter Vigil to go confess prior to being confirmed, that they must remember all their mortal sins to the best of their ability, and that they CAN receive absolution before Confirmation. This usually occurs around the time of the scrutinies... which maybe has something to do with the ability to receive absolution? Was/is there a certain point in the journey to becoming Catholic that the Church would give them a Catholic funeral Mass and burial if they died or were, say, martyred before receiving the sacraments?

It's possible for someone who is baptized but not confirmed to receive absolution.  Otherwise, the vast majority of kids in Novus Ordo parishes would be making invalid confessions for about half a dozen years in between their first confession and their confirmation.

Why is it not allowed for catechumens?  Probably to make sure that they're adequately prepared for that sacrament.  It's just as serious as any of the others, and we don't want someone going in there without a good understanding of contrition, amendment, and how to do an examination.

Ahhhh... see, that obvious point escaped me :)

Agreed that serious preparation and instruction is needed. I've also heard that it is not allowed for catechumens (or not needed) because their sins are forgiven in baptism, even the mortal ones.

Wanted to add that I'm a cradle Cat questioning e v e r y t h i n g I saw at the NO growing up, hence the pedantic questions and comments.
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#22
(04-13-2021, 05:20 PM)Little Fish Wrote: Feeling silly for asking this, and I may have totally missed something in this thread:

Do former Protestants (not lapsed Catholics) entering the church at a traditional parish (vs. NO) wait for their first confession until after being confirmed? Or do they confess without being given absolution?
Baptised adults who become Catholic would have to first of all go to confession and receive absolution for excommunication and any mortal sin since Baptism. Novus Ordo or not doesn't matter. After this absolution, it's public profession of faith. Then one can either be confirmed the same day, or it can be postponed. But certainly you would go to confession and receive absolution before Confirmation either way.
Quote:Why I'm asking:
- I have yet to witness a baptized Protestant become Catholic at a traditional parish, just a former atheist receiving all his sacraments at once and a lot of babies.
- My husband is a catechist at a NO parish, and I believe that they instruct former Protestants entering the Church at the Easter Vigil to go confess prior to being confirmed, that they must remember all their mortal sins to the best of their ability, and that they CAN receive absolution before Confirmation. This usually occurs around the time of the scrutinies... which maybe has something to do with the ability to receive absolution? Was/is there a certain point in the journey to becoming Catholic that the Church would give them a Catholic funeral Mass and burial if they died or were, say, martyred before receiving the sacraments?
As Chairman said, Confession works fine for people who haven't been confirmed, as witnessed by all those kids.

A funeral or even any requiem Mass can only be said for a Catholic. I don't know whether it can be said for someone who has been absolved in the confessional (which is obviously private) but hasn't made public profession of faith. The probability of dying between these two steps isn't that great. To avoid controversy, please die after public profession.
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#23
(04-13-2021, 05:54 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: Why is it not allowed for catechumens?  Probably to make sure that they're adequately prepared for that sacrament.
And because the Sacrament of Penance is invalid for catechumens!
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#24
Marmot, if only one could so easily know the hour of one's death... or not. Maybe not something that would actually be beneficial knowing, especially for the procrastinators among us. Best that they always have death before their eyes.
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#25
(04-13-2021, 04:23 PM)Marmot Wrote:
(04-13-2021, 04:04 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: An Act of Perfect Contrition will forgive sins, even mortal sins, if it is truly a Perfect Act, which means it is a hatred of all of our sins because of the offense to God (and not some lesser motive), and it includes the intention to confess and receive absolution as soon as reasonably possible.
An act of perfect contrition doesn't have to be a "perfect act". It is true that in an act of perfect contrition we must hate at least all our mortal sins because they offend God, but the presence of a less noble motive alongside this does not imply we don't have perfect contrition.

I'm using "perfect act" as a shorthand substitute for "Act of Perfect Contrition", not in the philosophical sense of "perfection of act".
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#26
(04-13-2021, 04:43 PM)Marmot Wrote:
(04-13-2021, 04:33 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: There are priests in the Society who reject the validity of Novus Ordo sacraments.
Say who they are, and we'll see tomorrow whether they are "in the SSPX".

I know of plenty of SSPX priests who have serious doubts about various of the new rites of the Sacraments as performed, not in themselves.

Msgr Lefebvre himself had serious questions about Confirmation due to its change (and hence the SSPX practice of near-universal offering of Conditional Confirmation to those not Confirmed in the traditional rite, is from him). He also had doubts about the new Mass, not because of form and matter, but due to intention, since the GIRM and seminaries were teaching the Mass as a meal (an heretical concept), and not as the Council of Trent did, as a Propitiatory Sacrifice. Given the poor instruction in the seminaries and bad Catechesis, he thought that eventually the changes would affect the attitude of the priests and bring into question validity from a lack of intention.

I know of no SSPX priests who openly say that any Novus Ordo sacrament is categorically invalid. I am quite confident that if they did publicly say this, they would not be "in the SSPX" for very long afterward.
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#27
(04-13-2021, 05:22 PM)Pandora Wrote: But my admittedly small “firestorm” hypothesis has been proven nonetheless.

I'm not sure a handful of responses amounts even to a smoldering ember.

Certainly, there's no firestorm.
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#28
(04-13-2021, 06:41 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: I know of plenty of SSPX priests who have serious doubts about various of the new rites of the Sacraments as performed, not in themselves.

That is a good distinction.

Is it acceptable for a priest to advise lay Catholics that, if the Novus Ordo is the only Mass available, they should stay home and substitute an appropriate amount of prayer and scripture readings instead of attending that Novus Ordo Mass?

I'm not asking this question as a "gotcha". I believe that even a reverent, ad orientem Novus Ordo has some issues, but I always figured it was better to go than not to go, and I'm wondering what reasoning justifies the position.
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#29
(04-13-2021, 05:54 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: It's possible for someone who is baptized but not confirmed to receive absolution.  Otherwise, the vast majority of kids in Novus Ordo parishes would be making invalid confessions for about half a dozen years in between their first confession and their confirmation.

Yep.  I was one of those kids. :)

When I was a kid it was baptism, confession, communion, and then confirmation.
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#30
All four Baltimore Catechisms, the Catechism of Trent, and a slew of other catechisms are available in the FishEaters library:  https://www.fisheaters.com/catholiclibrary.html
T h e   D u d e t t e   A b i d e s
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