Can converts receive the Sacrament of Confession?
#21
(04-13-2021, 04:23 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(04-13-2021, 04:18 PM)Marmot Wrote:
(04-13-2021, 03:48 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: Many in the SSPX reject the validity of some Novus Ordo sacraments.
They are not "in the SSPX"...

Very true. The SSPX is an Institute of Priests. Laymen may attend Masses offered by the SSPX, but they are not 'n' or 'part of' the Society.

There are priests in the Society who reject the validity of Novus Ordo sacraments.
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#22
Wink 
(04-13-2021, 04:33 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: There are priests in the Society who reject the validity of Novus Ordo sacraments.
Say who they are, and we'll see tomorrow whether they are "in the SSPX".
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#23
Feeling silly for asking this, and I may have totally missed something in this thread:

Do former Protestants (not lapsed Catholics) entering the church at a traditional parish (vs. NO) wait for their first confession until after being confirmed? Or do they confess without being given absolution?

Why I'm asking:
- I have yet to witness a baptized Protestant become Catholic at a traditional parish, just a former atheist receiving all his sacraments at once and a lot of babies.
- My husband is a catechist at a NO parish, and I believe that they instruct former Protestants entering the Church at the Easter Vigil to go confess prior to being confirmed, that they must remember all their mortal sins to the best of their ability, and that they CAN receive absolution before Confirmation. This usually occurs around the time of the scrutinies... which maybe has something to do with the ability to receive absolution? Was/is there a certain point in the journey to becoming Catholic that the Church would give them a Catholic funeral Mass and burial if they died or were, say, martyred before receiving the sacraments?
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#24
(04-13-2021, 03:58 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(04-13-2021, 02:52 PM)Pandora Wrote: As an aside, I’d like to put out there that despite how we may personally feel about reverence, respect, etc., people confirmed in the Novus Ordo are really, truly confirmed.  Just as we cannot be re-baptized, we cannot be re-confirmed.  Maybe we would have preferred it be performed by Fr. Trad Tradderson in the traditional form instead of Fr. Jimmy No-Last-Name, but our preference does not make the sacrament.


I think this is going to start a firestorm, but I’ll go ahead and say it anyway: NO sacraments are efficacious, provided, as with any rite or use, they are done with the intent to perform the sacraments.

... and the proper matter and form is used.

This would be true for any rite/form, which is why I didn’t bother saying it. I think there’s a widespread conception in certain circles that for all times and places, ever, the traditional rites were and are always performed correctly.

But my admittedly small “firestorm” hypothesis has been proven nonetheless.
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#25
(04-13-2021, 05:20 PM)Little Fish Wrote: Feeling silly for asking this, and I may have totally missed something in this thread:

Do former Protestants (not lapsed Catholics) entering the church at a traditional parish (vs. NO) wait for their first confession until after being confirmed? Or do they confess without being given absolution?

Why I'm asking:
- I have yet to witness a baptized Protestant become Catholic at a traditional parish, just a former atheist receiving all his sacraments at once and a lot of babies.
- My husband is a catechist at a NO parish, and I believe that they instruct former Protestants entering the Church at the Easter Vigil to go confess prior to being confirmed, that they must remember all their mortal sins to the best of their ability, and that they CAN receive absolution before Confirmation. This usually occurs around the time of the scrutinies... which maybe has something to do with the ability to receive absolution? Was/is there a certain point in the journey to becoming Catholic that the Church would give them a Catholic funeral Mass and burial if they died or were, say, martyred before receiving the sacraments?

Even though we love pedantry, I will say that while having a funeral Mass could be a question, a memorial Mass can be said for anyone, even if they are not Catholic.  It won’t do much good if the soul is in hell, but that’s a story for another day.
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#26
(04-13-2021, 05:20 PM)Little Fish Wrote: - My husband is a catechist at a NO parish, and I believe that they instruct former Protestants entering the Church at the Easter Vigil to go confess prior to being confirmed, that they must remember all their mortal sins to the best of their ability, and that they CAN receive absolution before Confirmation. This usually occurs around the time of the scrutinies... which maybe has something to do with the ability to receive absolution? Was/is there a certain point in the journey to becoming Catholic that the Church would give them a Catholic funeral Mass and burial if they died or were, say, martyred before receiving the sacraments?

It's possible for someone who is baptized but not confirmed to receive absolution. Otherwise, the vast majority of kids in Novus Ordo parishes would be making invalid confessions for about half a dozen years in between their first confession and their confirmation.

Why is it not allowed for catechumens? Probably to make sure that they're adequately prepared for that sacrament. It's just as serious as any of the others, and we don't want someone going in there without a good understanding of contrition, amendment, and how to do an examination.
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#27
(04-13-2021, 05:54 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(04-13-2021, 05:20 PM)Little Fish Wrote: - My husband is a catechist at a NO parish, and I believe that they instruct former Protestants entering the Church at the Easter Vigil to go confess prior to being confirmed, that they must remember all their mortal sins to the best of their ability, and that they CAN receive absolution before Confirmation. This usually occurs around the time of the scrutinies... which maybe has something to do with the ability to receive absolution? Was/is there a certain point in the journey to becoming Catholic that the Church would give them a Catholic funeral Mass and burial if they died or were, say, martyred before receiving the sacraments?

It's possible for someone who is baptized but not confirmed to receive absolution.  Otherwise, the vast majority of kids in Novus Ordo parishes would be making invalid confessions for about half a dozen years in between their first confession and their confirmation.

Why is it not allowed for catechumens?  Probably to make sure that they're adequately prepared for that sacrament.  It's just as serious as any of the others, and we don't want someone going in there without a good understanding of contrition, amendment, and how to do an examination.

Ahhhh... see, that obvious point escaped me :)

Agreed that serious preparation and instruction is needed. I've also heard that it is not allowed for catechumens (or not needed) because their sins are forgiven in baptism, even the mortal ones.

Wanted to add that I'm a cradle Cat questioning e v e r y t h i n g I saw at the NO growing up, hence the pedantic questions and comments.
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#28
(04-13-2021, 05:20 PM)Little Fish Wrote: Feeling silly for asking this, and I may have totally missed something in this thread:

Do former Protestants (not lapsed Catholics) entering the church at a traditional parish (vs. NO) wait for their first confession until after being confirmed? Or do they confess without being given absolution?
Baptised adults who become Catholic would have to first of all go to confession and receive absolution for excommunication and any mortal sin since Baptism. Novus Ordo or not doesn't matter. After this absolution, it's public profession of faith. Then one can either be confirmed the same day, or it can be postponed. But certainly you would go to confession and receive absolution before Confirmation either way.
Quote:Why I'm asking:
- I have yet to witness a baptized Protestant become Catholic at a traditional parish, just a former atheist receiving all his sacraments at once and a lot of babies.
- My husband is a catechist at a NO parish, and I believe that they instruct former Protestants entering the Church at the Easter Vigil to go confess prior to being confirmed, that they must remember all their mortal sins to the best of their ability, and that they CAN receive absolution before Confirmation. This usually occurs around the time of the scrutinies... which maybe has something to do with the ability to receive absolution? Was/is there a certain point in the journey to becoming Catholic that the Church would give them a Catholic funeral Mass and burial if they died or were, say, martyred before receiving the sacraments?
As Chairman said, Confession works fine for people who haven't been confirmed, as witnessed by all those kids.

A funeral or even any requiem Mass can only be said for a Catholic. I don't know whether it can be said for someone who has been absolved in the confessional (which is obviously private) but hasn't made public profession of faith. The probability of dying between these two steps isn't that great. To avoid controversy, please die after public profession.
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#29
(04-13-2021, 05:54 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: Why is it not allowed for catechumens?  Probably to make sure that they're adequately prepared for that sacrament.
And because the Sacrament of Penance is invalid for catechumens!
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#30
Marmot, if only one could so easily know the hour of one's death... or not. Maybe not something that would actually be beneficial knowing, especially for the procrastinators among us. Best that they always have death before their eyes.
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