UK premier Boris Johnson has wed in secret at Catholic Westminster Cathedral London
#11
(05-30-2021, 11:14 PM)Paul Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 04:52 PM)AlNg777 Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 03:17 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: ... there's always the Pauline privilege. This is where an unbaptized person who is married in a natural marriage converts, but their spouse does not. Under certain circumstances the new convert can re-marry in order to be able to practice the Faith.
How does this relate to what Jesus said in Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

Sacramental marriages are indissoluable except by death, which is what our Lord is referring to there. Natural marriage can be dissolved by the Church in favour of the faith.

See 1 Cor. 7. 10-15.

The Church's understanding of this is that a non-sacramental (i.e. two unbaptized persons) marriage can be dissolved by a sacramental marriage under certain conditions, thus allowing a convert to marry a Christian so they can live a Christian married life.

There is also the extended Petrine Privilege (which is just the same logic applied from the Pauline Privilege) in which when there was a non-sacramental marriage between a heretic and an unbaptized person, that the unbaptized person can convert to Catholicism and marry a Catholic sacramentally dissolving the natural marriage with the heretic, so they can live a Catholic married life and not be forced to be exposed to heresy which would be a danger to their Faith. It can only be employed by the Pope personally.

As to the relation from the original question, since the Church is the only authorized interpreter of Scripture, there is obviously no issue with Our Lord's words, since the Church has long held (during traditional times before Modernism infected the Church) that these two privileges existed and could be exercised and were not contrary to the commands of Our Lord.
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#12
(05-30-2021, 11:14 PM)Paul Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 04:52 PM)AlNg777 Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 03:17 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: ... there's always the Pauline privilege. This is where an unbaptized person who is married in a natural marriage converts, but their spouse does not. Under certain circumstances the new convert can re-marry in order to be able to practice the Faith.
How does this relate to what Jesus said in Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

Sacramental marriages are indissoluable except by death, which is what our Lord is referring to there. 
I didn't know that there were Sacramental marriages when Jesus was speaking.
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#13
(05-31-2021, 01:51 AM)AlNg777 Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 11:14 PM)Paul Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 04:52 PM)AlNg777 Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 03:17 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: ... there's always the Pauline privilege. This is where an unbaptized person who is married in a natural marriage converts, but their spouse does not. Under certain circumstances the new convert can re-marry in order to be able to practice the Faith.
How does this relate to what Jesus said in Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

Sacramental marriages are indissoluable except by death, which is what our Lord is referring to there. 
I didn't know that there were Sacramental marriages when Jesus was speaking.

Kinda doesn't matter if there were or weren't. The Church, who has His authority to tell us what He meant has spoken, so He has as well.

There is no contradiction between Our Lord's words and the Pauline Privilege, unless you don't accept the authority of the Church.
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#14
(05-30-2021, 02:26 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: I sincerely hope that ''All necessary steps were taken, in both church and civil law, and all formalities completed before the wedding' because the 'Catholic author' obviously has no bloody idea what the hell she's talking about!


Was she not a previous editor of the weekly UK “Tablet” magazine, to say it was extremely liberal is putting it mildly.
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#15
(05-31-2021, 11:46 AM)MyLady Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 02:26 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: I sincerely hope that ''All necessary steps were taken, in both church and civil law, and all formalities completed before the wedding' because the 'Catholic author' obviously has no bloody idea what the hell she's talking about!


Was she not a previous editor of the weekly UK “Tablet” magazine, to say it was extremely liberal is putting it mildly.

I was not aware of that. She was indeed, which tells me all I need to know about her 'qualifications' as a 'Catholic journalist'. I usually refer to the 'Tablet' as the 'UK Fishwrap'. Fr Zed calls it the 'Pill'.
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#16
(05-31-2021, 05:22 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(05-31-2021, 01:51 AM)AlNg777 Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 11:14 PM)Paul Wrote: Sacramental marriages are indissoluable except by death, which is what our Lord is referring to there. 
I didn't know that there were Sacramental marriages when Jesus was speaking.

Kinda doesn't matter if there were or weren't. The Church, who has His authority to tell us what He meant has spoken, so He has as well.

There is no contradiction between Our Lord's words and the Pauline Privilege, unless you don't accept the authority of the Church.

Please show us where the Catholic Church has infallibly declared that Jesus was not speaking about natural marriage in Luke 16:18. The problem I see is that Sacramental marriage did not exist when Jesus was speaking, so obviously, He is speaking of natural marriage.
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#17
(06-05-2021, 07:16 PM)AlNg777 Wrote:
(05-31-2021, 05:22 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(05-31-2021, 01:51 AM)AlNg777 Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 11:14 PM)Paul Wrote: Sacramental marriages are indissoluable except by death, which is what our Lord is referring to there. 
I didn't know that there were Sacramental marriages when Jesus was speaking.

Kinda doesn't matter if there were or weren't. The Church, who has His authority to tell us what He meant has spoken, so He has as well.

There is no contradiction between Our Lord's words and the Pauline Privilege, unless you don't accept the authority of the Church.

Please show us where the Catholic Church has infallibly declared that Jesus was not speaking about natural marriage in Luke 16:18. The problem I see is that Sacramental marriage did not exist when Jesus was speaking, so obviously, He is speaking of natural marriage.

Is a natural marriage a real marriage though? Ie, we all agree that sacramental marriages are the real deal, and you can't break them. However, we do have annulments, which look to see if a sacrament did happen or not. If not, then legally they were married (natural marriage), however, in the eyes of God and the church, they were not. Thus, there was no marriage and the couple are free to actually marry a person. Thus why we are agaisnt divorce but annulments are a thing.
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#18
(06-07-2021, 11:43 AM)Sword of St. Michael Wrote: Is a natural marriage a real marriage though? Ie, we all agree that sacramental marriages are the real deal, and you can't break them. However, we do have annulments, which look to see if a sacrament did happen or not. If not, then legally they were married (natural marriage), however, in the eyes of God and the church, they were not.
"Marriage according to civil law" is not the same thing as "natural marriage". There exist valid natural marriages that are not acknowledged by civil law, and there are cases of people who are not really married at all but considered married by civil law. A natural marriage is any valid marriage in which at least one spouse is unbaptised.
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