The Fall of the Roman Church?
#1
The article I'm linking to below was written by a group of three hermits living on the island of Westray, one of the Orkney Islands. The BBC reported on their excommunication thus:


Quote:[b]Three hermits living in Orkney have been thrown out of the Roman Catholic church, after they called the Pope a "heretic", and said evil was "destroying" the church.
[/b]

The group published the comments in an online declaration.

A spokesman for the diocese of Argyll and the Isles said they were warned it would lead to excommunication.
He said offers of dialogue had been refused, so "the penalty now applies".

The group - two men who call themselves a priest and a monk, and a lay woman who was a senior doctor - live on the island of Westray.

They run a controversial blog in which they outline their objections to the church's stance on issues including homosexuality.

In 2015 the trio were thrown out of a church house in Northamptonshire for bringing the diocese into disrepute.
And at the beginning of last year one of the group was convicted of sending homophobic abuse to an Episcopal clergyman.

Article continues: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-n...d-51027744





This is an interesting which seems to set out their position:


Quote:??? The Fall of the Roman Church ???

The state of the Catholic Church at present is quite appalling, and the guardians of the Church, namely the bishops and the cardinals, are reduced to silence.  Is it a case of cowardice? Some will be cowards, others will be career clerics, many will be confused, and a large minority will be downright evil. There is a final category of those bishops and cardinals who know the truth, but fear, that if they speak out they will harm the Church and engender a possible schism.  This final category of good men wrestling with themselves over what is best for the Church are in grave danger of compromising the Truth.  Christ is the Truth and he cannot lie.  Statement after statement emanating from the Vatican either denies some Church treating or camouflages the truth; a good case is Amoris Laetitia.  Some of Amoris Laetitia is very good, but the notorious footnote destroys the good in the document, much as a superb wine will kill the drinker if poison is added to it.  How have we reached this terrible situation?
 
In the first place by the bishops thinking that the governments of the world in general are reasonable and only too happy to allow the Church to carry on her mission in the World. (I exclude the notable exceptions such as Russia and Hungary, to some extent Poland, and now Brazil, where Christian ethics are still promoted). We see this graphically in the case of the Scottish bishops who apparently fought hard to prevent the pro LGBT curriculum being implemented in the Catholic schools, and  then gave in and “welcomed” the new curriculum! That they were able to win some points in this, but lose others, is no help when the battle is lost.  My fear is that when one fights a purely defensive war one is not likely to win. The legendary battle of Marathon in 490 BC where Athens defeated the great Persian army shows the truth of Napoleon’s remark, that in war the spiritual is three times greater than the physical.  In his wonderful book “Persian Fire” Tom Holland conveys the dread and the courage of the Athenians on the eve of the great battle.
 
Continues at their website: http://www.trumpeteer.co.uk/the-fall-of-...4593641173
 
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#2
What will they do now?
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#3
(06-16-2021, 11:10 PM)TruthWhichIsChrist Wrote: What will they do now?

I'm not sure. I can't seem to find any updates on them. This is their address, though:


Quote:Fr Stephen de Kerdrel, Sr Colette Roberts, Br Damon Kelly, The Hermitage, Rapness, Westray, Orkney, Scotland KW17 2DE



They were in the process of building a chapel: http://www.trumpeteer.co.uk/the-hermitage/4594241531
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#4
They're saying that the gates of hell have prevailed over the Church.

The irony is that every person who makes that claim, the gates of hell have prevailed over them.
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#5
(06-17-2021, 11:51 AM)BobCatholic Wrote: They're saying that the gates of hell have prevailed over the Church.

The irony is that every person who makes that claim, the gates of hell have prevailed over them.

I would disagree with them, as whilst there is the SSPX and other adherents to the true faith, then it clearly hasn't. I do think the Church has been infiltrated, though.
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#6
The fig branch is tender and with leaves .
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#7
Quote: I do think the Church has been infiltrated, though.
if an infiltrator becomes a priest are his sacraments invalid? or is that idea donatism?
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#8
(06-22-2021, 08:40 AM)xsantiagox Wrote:
Quote: I do think the Church has been infiltrated, though.
if an infiltrator becomes a priest are his sacraments invalid? or is that idea donatism?
I believe his sacraments would still be valid. His position as an infiltrator does not mark him as unable to be validly ordained and his valid ordination thus marks his sacraments as valid. I could be wrong though so please correct me if so.
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#9
(06-22-2021, 08:40 AM)xsantiagox Wrote:
Quote: I do think the Church has been infiltrated, though.
if an infiltrator becomes a priest are his sacraments invalid? or is that idea donatism?
It is Donatism. As long as he's validly ordained his sacramental acts are assumed to be valid. Otherwise, we would never know for sure if a sacrament we are receiving is valid, not a good position to be in.
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#10
(06-22-2021, 04:42 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: It is Donatism. As long as he's validly ordained his sacramental acts are assumed to be valid. Otherwise, we would never know for sure if a sacrament we are receiving is valid, not a good position to be in.

Does the Church teach we are to assume the sacraments are valid, or that they are objectively valid? What about the priest who clandestinely intends to not do what the Church does, and makes no external sign of his intention? (I'm presuming the previous example is of a priest who is not actively intending to not do what the Church does) Unless they are still valid despite his intention, then that would leave us with the same problem of never knowing for sure if we are receiving valid sacraments.
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