Does Anyone Have and ESV-CE?
#11
(07-22-2021, 11:13 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 10:58 PM)Justin Tertius Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 10:41 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 10:23 PM)Justin Tertius Wrote: First, I understand why people cringe at the highly favoured translation, but this can't be a deal breaker.

The Greek doesn't say "highly favored" or "full of grace".  It uses a word which would be most directly translated as something more like "You who have always been full of grace," or "You who have always possessed the fullness of grace."

"Highly favored", by contrast, is so bland that it should offend you.  It's not an accident.  It's a protestant slight directed at the Blessed Virgin.

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a116.htm

Therefore the all Bibles which possess this translation (even approved Catholic translations) are offensive to God and must be avoided?

I really am failing to see the logic here, it doesn't make sense.

What is an "approved Catholic translation"?

Well, aparently the ESV-Catholic Edition :P

Also, the New American Bible, Revised Edition and the NRSV-Catholic Edition. I am sure there are others which I couldn't check right now, but you see my point. (Also, don't straw man the NABRE with the footnotes argument.)
"Especially will I do this if the Lord make known to me that you come together man by man in common through grace, individually, in one faith, and in Jesus Christ... so that you obey the bishop and the presbytery with an undivided mind, breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote to prevent us from dying, but which causes that we should live for ever in Jesus Christ." St. Ignatius of Antioch

"But Polycarp... waving his hand towards them, while with groans he look up to heaven, said, 'Away with the Atheists.'" Martyrdom of Polycarp
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#12
(07-22-2021, 11:34 PM)Justin Tertius Wrote: Well, aparently the ESV-Catholic Edition :P

An "approved Catholic translation" is any translation that an episcopal conference (like the USCCB) has approved for use.

Many of these translations are not perfect, as demonstrated by the issues with the ESV-CE and NABRE (and especially the NAB before it).

If the translation is not perfect, then it must contain some error, however small.

And that means that an "approved Catholic translation" may contain error.
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#13
(07-23-2021, 09:08 AM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 11:34 PM)Justin Tertius Wrote: Well, aparently the ESV-Catholic Edition :P

An "approved Catholic translation" is any translation that an episcopal conference (like the USCCB) has approved for use.

Many of these translations are not perfect, as demonstrated by the issues with the ESV-CE and NABRE (and especially the NAB before it).

If the translation is not perfect, then it must contain some error, however small.

And that means that an "approved Catholic translation" may contain error.

An "approved Catholic translation" as I was describing it was one which contained an imprimatur and was approved by the Church.

No translation is ever perfect.
"Especially will I do this if the Lord make known to me that you come together man by man in common through grace, individually, in one faith, and in Jesus Christ... so that you obey the bishop and the presbytery with an undivided mind, breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote to prevent us from dying, but which causes that we should live for ever in Jesus Christ." St. Ignatius of Antioch

"But Polycarp... waving his hand towards them, while with groans he look up to heaven, said, 'Away with the Atheists.'" Martyrdom of Polycarp
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#14
(07-22-2021, 10:58 PM)Justin Tertius Wrote: Therefore the all Bibles which possess this translation (even approved Catholic translations) are offensive to God and must be avoided?

Not necessarily, but potentially dangerous to read. If they've kept the Protestant 'highly favoured', what else in there supports Protestant doctrine? 'Overseer' isn't wrong, since that's part of what a bishop does, but most Protestants deny the need for clergy, and translate episkopos as 'overseer' to support their theology.

If a Catholic Bible can't even get those things right, what else is lurking in there? Maybe if you know your faith well enough and are reading multiple translations, it's fine, but there are plenty of Catholics who don't know the faith and could be led astray by such things - when their Protestant friends point out things like 'overseer' and tell them that bishops are a distortion introduced later, maybe they start to have doubts. But the bishops today are more worried about offending other religions than teaching the truth, and so they approve things like this.

No translation is perfect, but some are better than others, and it's best to be cautious of Protestant versions of Scripture that have been adapted for Catholic use. Given what's been going on in the Church since the 1960s, I don't particularly trust newer translations to be completely Catholic - remember, the footnotes of the NAB have an imprimatur, too.
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