Ecclesiastical No-Man's Land

[J Michael]

As an Orthodox Christian if you "convert" to Catholicism you will automatically come into the Eastern Rite canonically.  That, of course, doesn't mean you cannot worship and be a parish member in a Latin Rite church or monastery.

I came into the Church originally by way of the Byzantine Catholic Church.  I've never felt any kind of calling to or affinity towards the Latin Rite of the Church, though I respect and greatly appreciate the TLM and the Ordinariate liturgies.  My heart and soul have always been in the East.  Circumstances, however, dictate my participation in the Latin Rite at a N.O. parish--a good one, too, now.  So, I can empathize with you about what you're going through.

During my time in the Orthodox Church, I never really experienced an anti-papal or anti-Catholic sentiment to speak of.  People were just too busy living their own lives, trying to develop their own Orthodox spirituality and phronema, not giving really a whole lot of thought, for the most part, to their Catholic brethren.  Even if you brought up the topic of Catholicism or the split between the Churches, there was never a lot of enthusiasm to discuss it much.  Maybe that was a unique situation as it doesn't seem to mirror what you are experiencing in the O.C.

So....Don't focus on Francis--the Church has a long and colorful history of "bad" popes and has managed to survive; TAKE YOUR TIME BEFORE YOU DECIDE WHERE TO GO OR STAY; there's little to nothing you as an individual can do about the effects of VII--focus on your own spiritual life and that of your family;  DON'T RUSH INTO ANYTHING (but I repeat myself--intentionally :-) ); pray, pray, PRAY for God's guidance and direction--if you hear Him telling you "do this" or "do that", don't--wait and see if it is real, if it grows and sheds light rather than cast doubt, then wait a little more and...PRAY again and again for His guidance; don't worry about any impending or alleged impending Motu Proprios--they may never manifest or if they do, it may be something altogether different from what folks are speculating about;  oh yeah....pray some more :-).

God bless!!

[CaoimhinPConnell]

Welcome on board my ship (and that of millions more).

Briefly, your questions are too broad to be truly explored on an internet site.  Volumes have been written and there are good resources for the faithful whether members of the Orthodox, Eastern or Western Church.

Easy to read books to help you see some of the issues at hand at a deeper level, I recommend “Rome and the Eastern Churches” by John Christopher "Aidan" Nichols (A Roman Catholic).  “Being as Communion: Studies in Personhood and The Church” by John D. Zizioulas (Greek Orthodox).  “The Great Facade: Vatican II and the Regime of Novelty in the Roman Catholic Church" (Second Edition) by Ferrara and Wood (Romans).  “Infiltration” by George Nuemeyer.  Also brush up on the ecclesiological history of the Byzantine Empire (I’m not in my office, and can’t recall my fav book on that.)

In general, dig deep, and be open to objectively consider polemics from both sides. 

You will find that there are few people who know the details well, and ultimately favour wholly Greek/Russian Orthodoxy and the exact can be said about the “Novus Ordo” flavour of the New Catholicism.  You may find a home in one of the legitimate rites of the Eastern Churches, or a legitimate Traditional Latin rite (especially those ancient rites that appear to give a “nod and a wink” to VI and VII).

It's a journey, and one from my perspective, that, after 1869 requires the Faithful to choose necessarily between being a schismatic or being an heretic (or at least an heterodox). 

I know my opinion will be unpopular.

[J Michael]

Welcome on board my ship (and that of millions more).

Briefly, your questions are too broad to be truly explored on an internet site.  Volumes have been written and there are good resources for the faithful whether members of the Orthodox, Eastern or Western Church.

Easy to read books to help you see some of the issues at hand at a deeper level, I recommend “Rome and the Eastern Churches” by John Christopher "Aidan" Nichols (A Roman Catholic).  “Being as Communion: Studies in Personhood and The Church” by John D. Zizioulas (Greek Orthodox).  “The Great Facade: Vatican II and the Regime of Novelty in the Roman Catholic Church" (Second Edition) by Ferrara and Wood (Romans).  “Infiltration” by George Nuemeyer.  Also brush up on the ecclesiological history of the Byzantine Empire (I’m not in my office, and can’t recall my fav book on that.)

In general, dig deep, and be open to objectively consider polemics from both sides. 

You will find that there are few people who know the details well, and ultimately favour wholly Greek/Russian Orthodoxy and the exact can be said about the “Novus Ordo” flavour of the New Catholicism.  You may find a home in one of the legitimate rites of the Eastern Churches, or a legitimate Traditional Latin rite (especially those ancient rites that appear to give a “nod and a wink” to VI and VII).

It's a journey, and one from my perspective, that, after 1869 requires the Faithful to choose necessarily between being a schismatic or being an heretic (or at least an heterodox). 

I know my opinion will be unpopular.

I just like to add to what C.P. suggested by very highly recommending this, if you haven't already read it:


Fr. Cleenewerck is an Orthodox priest so his perspective is Orthodox.  However, given that, his approach is extremely balanced and fair.  I can't recommend this highly enough.

And remember..."No matter who you are, somebody thinks you're a heretic (or schismatic)."

[PilgrimMichelangelo]

Thank you all for your counsel and advice.

In the light of unTraditional Custardy being released I am going to have to retreat from religion for awhile.

Nothing makes sense right now.

And even if Catholicism still rings true it would only be in the SSPX, SSPV or Sedevacantist forms. At present i certainly don't have a strong enough faith for that commitment.

Please keep me in your prayers.

PAX.

[Clare Brigid]

Have hope.  Do not give up.  Many bishops are ignoring Traditionis Custodes and instructing their priests to continue with the traditional Latin Mass.  The pope is counting on the faithful to just give up and return to the Novus Ordo.  Be a part of the remnant that clings to the traditional Mass.

[jovan66102]

What Clare said. Remember Popes come and go. The Barque of Peter is unsinkable!

[choosetowitness]

Do you feel particularly called to the Latin church if you become Catholic?  If that's where you hear God calling you, then you must follow.  But if you are indifferent to which rite you worship according to, as long as it's Catholic, then please stay Eastern!  There are many dire predictions that the Byzantine churches, Catholic and Orthodox, might be gone from North America in 50 years do to decreasing population and people going to a closer Latin church and forgetting their heritage.

Sorry if I'm bumping this thread a little late, but do you have any sources on that? I'd be interested in reading them.