What are conservative Novus Ordo Catholics?
#41
You know, the description of some traditionalists as constantly irritated and miserable isn’t far off the mark, in many instances. The love for the TLM should, of course, be based in love for God, not in pride or arrogance. Ultimately, the solution to everything is this: keep your focus upon God. Do that, and our lives are properly ordered. Don’t do that, and we thirst for Him, even when our focus is elsewhere. We were made for Him.
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#42
To be fair, there are 3 parishes in the metro area I attend that I would consider both devout and definitely orthodox and would never second guess the Catholicity of the parishioners. 2 of those 3 had a diocesan TLM. I know for a fact that devout, prayerful Conservative Catholics exist. But when 70+% of Catholics don't believe the Faith, they obviously aren't THAT numerous.

Although I am a Traditional Catholic, in my mind, I think the best litmus test for a devout Catholic is due they strive for a robust prayer life, particularly mental prayer. If not... Well St Alphonsus sure doesn't have much hope for such a Catholic.

Unrelated, its funny that trads aren't allowed to blame the NO as a factor in the apostasy of the West but the libs and cons get to say its ALL thanks to the NO Catholicism is growing in Africa.
Ave Christus Rex!
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#43
(07-20-2021, 06:49 AM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(07-19-2021, 10:05 PM)austenbosten Wrote: While NO types in their polo shirts and slacks may look goofy with their orans position at Mass...they are at least joyful and at least have a love for Christ.

Do you mean the older generation whose kids and grandkids don't even attend Mass weekly?

Or do you mean the young adults who have 2-3 kids and then get a vasectomy in their early 30s?

Virtually all protestants are joyful and love Christ.  Or at least they love the person they think He is.
Yeah, I thought it was weird when Austen said "The marker of a Christian is joy." 
When I read about the Saints I just don't get the picture of the goofy, effeminate, smiley-glad hands protestant "joy" that you also see in some NO parishes. The marker of a Christian I'd say is piety and holiness, which isn't always "joyful".
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#44
(07-20-2021, 07:54 AM)muffinman145 Wrote:
(07-20-2021, 06:49 AM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(07-19-2021, 10:05 PM)austenbosten Wrote: While NO types in their polo shirts and slacks may look goofy with their orans position at Mass...they are at least joyful and at least have a love for Christ.

Do you mean the older generation whose kids and grandkids don't even attend Mass weekly?

Or do you mean the young adults who have 2-3 kids and then get a vasectomy in their early 30s?

Virtually all protestants are joyful and love Christ.  Or at least they love the person they think He is.
Yeah, I thought it was weird when Austen said "The marker of a Christian is joy." 
When I read about the Saints I just don't get the picture of the goofy, effeminate, smiley-glad hands protestant "joy" that you also see in some NO parishes. The marker of a Christian I'd say is piety and holiness, which isn't always "joyful".

I doubt there is only one marker that identifies a Christian.  Well, except for baptism, that is.  But I guess we're talking about a "good Christian" or something much more specific.  When Austen mentioned joy, the first thing I thought of was Galatians 5:22, where St. Paul lists joy as one of the fruits of the Spirit.  I would say that an authentic joy, rooted in the Spirit and faithfulness to God, is certainly a good sign that a person is on the right track.  But some Saints have definitely been gloomy and I've had enough experience in the mental health world to know that some people, more than one might realize, are very good at putting on a joyful face and demeanor while inwardly they're depressed, anxious, unhappy, etc.  The same is probably true of outward appearances of piety and holiness. 

My own experience with Protestants is that many appear joyful and happy during their worship services, but then they kind of crash afterwards or even display very unattractive qualities.  I remember once, during my early exploration of Christianity, sitting in on a coffee social hour after one Lutheran worship service.  It had been a happy, joyful service, but during the coffee hour, people gossiped and said all manner of unpleasant things about absent family members and (of course) Catholics and our unreasonable beliefs about divorce (turns out, half of these Lutherans were remarried divorcees).
"For the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but traditionalists."
- Pope St. Pius X

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables."
- 2 Timothy 4:3-4

"Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity."
- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
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#45
What is a conservative Novus Ordo Catholic?

I went to confession at the local NO church last Saturday. I was nearly first in line, and watched the line get longer. By the time I had confessed my sins and received absolution, there were 20-30 people in line.

Guys I know who only go to that church:
-go to Mass at least once a week
-spend an hour before the Blessed Sacrament every Wednesday
-participate in the weekly "Avila Holy Hour"
-pray the rosary daily
-don't leave Mass until Mass has truly ended and we have received a blessing
-go to confession often
-volunteer to help make church activities happen

Writing this, I am wondering if "conservative" is the right word to describe what I observe. Words like "pious," "faithful," or "practicing" seem more appropriate.
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#46
(07-20-2021, 08:15 AM)SeekerofChrist Wrote: My own experience with Protestants is that many appear joyful and happy during their worship services, but then they kind of crash afterwards or even display very unattractive qualities. 

I have observed that among Catholics too.  It's like they are balloons with a pin hole that let's all the air out.  As long as they are all pumped up by actively engaging in Praise and Worship everything is great.  But afterwards they deflate back to their old selves, unchanged by the experience.  

Isn't that just a bit like you and me?

I recognize that in myself and find it all very humbling.
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#47
Nowadays, a conservative Catholic is considered someone who follows the precepts of the Church. Someone who follows the unchanging teachings of the Church to the best of his or her ability. Someone who strives to be a saint.

It also helps to look at what is considered a liberal Catholic, for the purpose of contrast.

I think that you can be a conservative Catholic regardless of which rite or form you follow. However, I think it's generally more difficult when frequenting the NO mass.

I would consider my son a conservative Catholic, as well as many who go to his NO parish.
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#48
Conservative NO Catholics come in many shades. Some are very similar to us. I've talked to some who think the TLM is wonderful, but they won't leave their home parish because they're attached to it for various reasons, i,e, family, friends, close by. Some Conservative NO Catholics sound very similar to evangelicals, politically speaking that is. And then there are the CAF Conservative NO types who will believe anything they're told so long as the person telling them what to believe has a miter on his head.

                                     I don't know who's so personally familiar with miserable Trads, but I could go on a long time with all the funny stories I experienced first hand at Latin mass parishes. I'd say we kept our sense of humor pretty well considering all the vitriol heaped on us over the decades.
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#49
They receive on the tongue and are old school in their worship style. The women have Thier heads covered out of piety. They pray with Thier family

They prefer hymns that have been around for centuries, such as Faith of Our Fathers, and Holy God we praise Thy Name.

They prefer to sit in silence or prayer before mass and don't run around greeting people in church.

I belong also to my children's school parish and this is what I noticed there.
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#50
(07-20-2021, 07:43 AM)Some Guy Wrote: Unrelated, its funny that trads aren't allowed to blame the NO as a factor in the apostasy of the West but the libs and cons get to say its ALL thanks to the NO Catholicism is growing in Africa.

This is something I've been thinking about the past few days. I've heard conflicting reports of "traditionalism thriving in Africa" and "Novus Ordo Mass has built the Church up in Africa". I wonder which is true, or is it a particular mix?
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