What are conservative Novus Ordo Catholics?
#61
Since folks are discussing the Catholic Church in Africa, it's one of the places where the future of the Church looks very good. Conversions, Vocations, holiness, orthodoxy (think of Cardinal +Sarah, Cardinal +Arinze etc) and a growing Church. Tradition has a good presence too, but the mainstream Church is strong as well.

From: https://www.newsweek.com/jesus-has-found...ica-399114

"Pope Francis has just concluded his first papal visit to Africa. If he wanted a popularity boost, he went to the right place: the Catholic Church is flourishing in Africa.

Each of the countries that the pope visited— Kenya, Uganda and the Central African Republic (CAR)—has a substantial Catholic population. According to a 2011 report on global Christianity by the Pew Research Center, Kenya has 9 million Catholics, Uganda 14 million and the CAR 1.3 million—equivalent to 22 percent, 42 percent and 29 percent of the population, respectively. And these are not isolated phenomena, cherry-picked to ensure a smooth visit for Francis: the report estimates that around one-in-five of sub-Saharan Africans belonged to the Roman Catholic Church in 2010.

There has also been an explosive growth in the number of Catholics in Africa over the past 35 years. The world's Catholic population has grown by 57 percent since 1980, according to a June report by the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA) at Georgetown University. But this growth is not uniform: Africa's Catholic population has shot up by 238 percent in that period, compared to just a 6 percent increase in the European Catholic population. The difference is largely due to variations in fertility rates, according to the report.

Archbishop John Baptist Odama, the head of Uganda's conference of Catholic bishops, met the pope when Francis greeted the bishops of Uganda in Kampala on Saturday. Odama believes that the success of the Church in Africa is down to the tangible impact it has on people's lives in spheres such as healthcare and education. "The church has been a mother [to the African people] … It has been with the people in all their initial stages of life and in their critical conditions," says Odama.

Father Agbonkhianmeghe Orobator, former leader of the Eastern Africa province of the Jesuit order to which Francis belongs, agrees that the practical work done by the Church has driven its growth. "More than any other religious community or faith, Catholicism has been the largest non-state provider of healthcare and education in Africa," says Orobator, currently on sabbatical at Marquette University in Wisconsin ...

Africa looks set to remain the Catholic Church's beacon of hope for the foreseeable future. The CARA report predicts that by 2040, almost one in four Africans will be Catholic, putting the continent's total Catholic population at 460 million."
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#62
I got my answer at another forum (no) and I think they are very misled. It seems to some No people that any worship style goes. I may has well turned protestant by Thier examples


Young people do not want happy clappy masses that mean nothing. They want and need the structure of a well defined church. Structure and assurance, piety and the Holy Spirits wisdom.
I came back to the Catholic faith after my rebellious stage. Low to my surprise, communion in hand, priest facing the congregation and no veiling for women.

I talked to my priest in open confession and he laid hands on me. I asked what happened..he said we have to stay with the times. I told him of my experiences as a little girl and how comforting and consoling mass was then I told him of all the Saint feast days made special.

By his answer, It firmly rooted me to a simpler more Holy time. The Church and God is never changing. So I did. And found a Traditional parish. I still had to go to school parish for my kids but also brought them to Traditional mass on Sunday.

I asked the principal why they call first Friday mass, school mass. They said because everyone does not believe in that devotion...glad they are out of there
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#63
I define Conservative NO Catholic as Catholics who are not...as liberal... as many "liberal Catholics", may or may not have either not an ambivalent or negative view of the current pontiff, but are more...how do I put I put it...'normie' than traditionalists, and may or may have full faith in V2's teachings. Reddit's is chock full of both kinds, and I am not kidding, I made a dozen Reddit accounts on R/Catholicism and deleted them as many times, because they really drive me up the wrong way. For one, many of them accepted WITHOUT much doubt, with shutting down the Church. I was told I was uncharitable for not getting the jab, and was accused as not caring after showing my concern for the church closures, and the priests there (YES they have priests as mods) would not here about the SSPX, and when you question whether there was a pandemic or not, you get downvoted or outright banned. It is a good thing that whole site is burning down as we speak. I freaking HATE Reddit and social media in general. They almost made me consider leaving giving up and the faith and being baptized, because I felt the Church did not care. Thank God I stuck it out. You guys are the most genuine people, I have met online. I have met a lot of phony people online, but you are guy are more human than I have ever met. I know that I have been filling your boards with my whining and complaining...but it really is nice talking to you guys. And Austen the reason I lashed at on on you hoping the Chinese liberating us for globohomo...THAT is...EXACTLY what they want you to think...They love globohomo as a tool to subvert and weaken opposing nations culturally, so that that a superior culture (them) Hearing Gommunists as "liberators" makes me want to have a litter of kittens as they say.
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#64
(07-20-2021, 03:34 AM)VoxClamantis Wrote: Traditional Catholic:

From https://www.fisheaters.com/traditionalca...sm101.html


Quote:...[W]hat all traditional Catholics who fit the label have in common -- whether they are sedevacantist, whether they worship inside or outside of diocesan structures -- are:
  • the dogmas of the Faith understood in a manner consistent with the way Catholics had always understood them -- i.e., they reject the errors outlined above -- and an upholding of traditional Catholic moral theology

  • a desire to preserve and restore all of the ancient sacramental rites, and to do so not because these are "preferred," but because they are objectively superior to the new rites and should once again become normative

  • a deep understanding of or intuition about the importance of preserving not only instrinsic tradition (the unwritten Deposit of the Faith handed down by Christ and His Apostles), but also the ecclesiastical tradition (extrinsic tradition) which has served to preserve intrinsic tradition and allows parents and priests to pass it down in an effective way

  • a strong sensus Catholicus (Catholic "sense" or "instinct"), including a cautious, Catholic approach to novelty

A conservative Catholic is baptized, doesn't fit the description above, but has no intention to not submit to rightful teaching. They're usually not consciously Modernist or otherwise consciously heretical, but they embrace errors, usually because they tend to exaggerate the papacy (as do many sedevacantists), which leads to their accepting whatever novelty comes down the pike if it comes from a rightful authority. If a Pope says X, even while not exercising infallibility, they embrace X, even if Not X has been Church teaching for 2,000 years. They might call themselves "traditional" because they believe those attitudes are traditional (they're not). Some tend to have good hearts, but weak minds. Some might be Saints in the making because of their intentions,  willingness to submit to Truth, and desire to please God. But holy or not, their sacramental rites are inferior (not in terms of validity, but in terms of catechetical qualities, beauty, tradition, theological depth, ability to épater les Protestants - ha, etc.), and they're often wrong about the errors outlined in the Traditional Catholicism 101 page linked to above.

(Some might wonder if some trads have good minds but weak hearts. Yes, some do. That's what the Toxic Traddism and Conversion of the Heart pages are about. The goal of FE is to avoid both idiocy and assholery while preserving authentic Catholic teaching and practice that our great-grandparents would recognize.)

Can you give an example of an error a conservative Catholic would hold?
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#65
(07-20-2021, 10:07 AM)Matas Wrote: What is a conservative Novus Ordo Catholic?

I went to confession at the local NO church last Saturday.  I was nearly first in line, and watched the line get longer.  By the time I had confessed my sins and received absolution, there were 20-30 people in line. 

Guys I know who only go to that church:
-go to Mass at least once a week
-spend an hour before the Blessed Sacrament every Wednesday
-participate in the weekly "Avila Holy Hour"
-pray the rosary daily
-don't leave Mass until Mass has truly ended and we have received a blessing
-go to confession often
-volunteer to help make church activities happen

Writing this, I am wondering if "conservative" is the right word to describe what I observe.  Words like "pious," "faithful," or "practicing" seem more appropriate.

Mrs. Rover and I fall into this category. She's a revert, I'm a convert, our parish has a TLM... we prefer the NO.

We pray the rosary every day, we sing the hymns and the responses LOUD (c'mon, people! ;) ). We don't spend an hour before the Blessed Sacrament each week, but our parish is building an adoration chapel which will make that easier.
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#66
What is a Catholic?
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#67
Majestie Wrote:What is a Catholic?

A baptized member of the Catholic Church.
"[I]t is vain to hope to attract souls to God by a bitter zeal."  Pope St. Pius X.

"If anyone deludes himself by thinking he is serving God, when he has not learned to control his tongue, the service he gives is vain.  If he is to offer service pure and unblemished in the sight of God, who is our Father, he must take care of orphans and widows in their need, and keep himself unstained by the world."  James 1:26-27.
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#68
(07-23-2021, 09:40 AM)Majestie Wrote: What is a Catholic?

Anyone who has been validly baptized, even so-called protestants.  They're just apostates from the time they reach the age of reason.

But only the Catholics who die in a state of grace will reach Heaven.  The rest are lost.
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#69
I know it’s normal for humanity to identify and categorize, and label…and make things more complicated. Where do Catholics get these complicated naming conventions? I realize it’s one thing to categorize between “lapsed” (not practicing) vs “faithful” (practicing, or trying to at least); those that follow the dogmas of the Church vs. those that don’t believe them.

But modernists, neo-modernists, traditionalists, liberals, conservatives, neo-conservatives, neo-Catholics, neo-liberals, Vatican II Catholics…I’ve seen all these labels applied to the various cliques in Catholicism of which I don’t identify with. Is this sectarianism a result of Catholic “communities” on the internet? To me there are those that just believe and “follow” the Church (or try hard to) and then there are those that don’t.” I suppose we could debate or argue until the moon turns blue about what this means specifically,
Which is why I guess all these Catholics exist on the internet anyway.
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#70
(07-23-2021, 11:47 AM)Majestie Wrote: I know it’s normal for humanity to identify and categorize, and label…and make things more complicated. Where do Catholics get these complicated naming conventions? I realize it’s one thing to categorize between “lapsed” (not practicing) vs “faithful” (practicing, or trying to at least); those that follow the dogmas of the Church vs. those that don’t believe them.

But modernists, neo-modernists, traditionalists, liberals, conservatives, neo-conservatives, neo-Catholics, neo-liberals, Vatican II Catholics…I’ve seen all these labels applied to the various cliques in Catholicism of which I don’t identify with. Is this sectarianism a result of Catholic “communities” on the internet? To me there are those that just believe and “follow” the Church (or try hard to) and then there are those that don’t.” I suppose we could debate or argue until the moon turns blue about what this means specifically,
Which is why I guess all these Catholics exist on the internet anyway.

A traditional Catholic believes and practices what Catholics have always believed and practiced.

All of those other groups say, "Nah, I'm much smarter than all of those stupid popes and saints who attempted to faithfully pass tradition on to me," and then they diverge, in one way or another, from what Catholics have always believed and practiced.
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