Getting up to speed on Vatican II
#1
I'm looking for some good resources that will allow me to get up to speed on the debate around Vatican II. I'm already familiar with some of the issues, groups, and controversies involved, but I'm looking for stuff that will give me good "executive summaries" more than something super detailed and comprehensive. 

I'm broadly familiar with what Vat II is. I know the Novus Ordo, the basic changes in liturgy, the changes to ritual, church architecture, etc. I know about the reactions it prompted, like the formation of the SSPX, FSSP, and more extreme groups like the CMRI. I've read stuff like the Wiki entry on Vat II and the article someone posted in the sede forum on "The Nine." 

Just looking to fill in a few gaps and have a nice summary of the major issues. Does such a thing exist? Has anyone written a document that summarizes Vat II, the issues, the major parties, and their stances? Very much appreciate any help.
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#2
This page sums things up: https://www.fisheaters.com/traditionalca...sm101.html
T h e   D u d e t t e   A b i d e s
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#3
(07-21-2021, 01:20 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote: This page sums things up: https://www.fisheaters.com/traditionalca...sm101.html

Yeah, I read that, lots of good stuff, but I was hoping for something a little more objective. I'd like something that makes the strongest possible argument for every major party involved. It's possible that what I'm looking for doesn't exist.
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#4
(07-22-2021, 10:26 AM)Bryan Wrote:
(07-21-2021, 01:20 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote: This page sums things up: https://www.fisheaters.com/traditionalca...sm101.html

Yeah, I read that, lots of good stuff, but I was hoping for something a little more objective. I'd like something that makes the strongest possible argument for every major party involved. It's possible that what I'm looking for doesn't exist.

Michael Lofton has some good stuff on Vatican II, and there is Bishop Barron's Word On Fire.

But yeah with Vatican II you are going to be doing a lot of reading and researching...Vatican II isn't as simple as say Vatican I and look at how much ink was spilled over the doctrine of papal infallibility that was taught in Vatican I.
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#5
(07-22-2021, 10:26 AM)Bryan Wrote:
(07-21-2021, 01:20 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote: This page sums things up: https://www.fisheaters.com/traditionalca...sm101.html

Yeah, I read that, lots of good stuff, but I was hoping for something a little more objective. I'd like something that makes the strongest possible argument for every major party involved. It's possible that what I'm looking for doesn't exist.

You won't find it.

The objective statements in V2's constitutions aren't generally controversial*.

Catholics dispute the changes made in the "Spirit" of V2.  And all of those point back to subjective impressions, innuendos, and ambiguities in the (very long) texts.

*There are some controversial statements regarding schismatics and the salvation of non-Catholics, but even those don't actually concern Catholicism...
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#6
(07-22-2021, 12:24 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 10:26 AM)Bryan Wrote:
(07-21-2021, 01:20 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote: This page sums things up: https://www.fisheaters.com/traditionalca...sm101.html

Yeah, I read that, lots of good stuff, but I was hoping for something a little more objective. I'd like something that makes the strongest possible argument for every major party involved. It's possible that what I'm looking for doesn't exist.

You won't find it.

The objective statements in V2's constitutions aren't generally controversial*.

Catholics dispute the changes made in the "Spirit" of V2.  And all of those point back to subjective impressions, innuendos, and ambiguities in the (very long) texts.

*There are some controversial statements regarding schismatics and the salvation of non-Catholics, but even those don't actually concern Catholicism...

---

What I mean is that I'm looking for a document that is objective in the sense that it plainly presents the arguments for every major party in the Vatican II debate. For example: "The main issues are..." and it lists, say, the top half dozen or dozen issues. Next, it presents the arguments of all the major players. "Here is why the proponents of Vat 2/Catholic mainstream believe they are right..." "Here are the major opponents of Vat 2..." "Here is what FSSP believes..." "Here is what SSPX believes..." "Here is what CMRI believes..."

Like I said, it's possible no such summary exists. I've been piecing all of it together myself but was just wondering if someone had already done the legwork. 
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#7
Be the change you want to see in the world.
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#8
(07-22-2021, 12:39 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: Be the change you want to see in the world.

Uh-huh, yeah, but if there's no need to reinvent the wheel, why do it?
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#9
(07-22-2021, 12:40 PM)Bryan Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 12:39 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: Be the change you want to see in the world.

Uh-huh, yeah, but if there's no need to reinvent the wheel, why do it?

Sounds like you're against modernism and all of its innovations.
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#10
(07-22-2021, 12:57 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 12:40 PM)Bryan Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 12:39 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: Be the change you want to see in the world.

Uh-huh, yeah, but if there's no need to reinvent the wheel, why do it?

Sounds like you're against modernism and all of its innovations.

I'm so hardcore I think the Council of Trent was cucked.
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