Can A Catholic Worship At Orthodox Liturgies?
#51
(10-02-2021, 08:44 PM)AlNg777 Wrote:
(10-02-2021, 08:15 PM)Paul Wrote: Heretics can have valid sacraments, and the Orthodox and other groups who have maintained valid Holy Orders do, although it's a sin to attend them except in danger of death.
I doubt that Pope St. John Paul II committed a sin when he attended Orthodox Divine Liturgy on May 9, 1999 in Romania. I don't see how it can be a sin to attend an Orthodox Liturgy when you have Catholic Saints doing such. Please support your contention that it is a sin for a Roman Catholic to attend Orthodox Liturgy. What are your references for this? Also do you say it is a mortal sin or a venial sin?

AlNg, it's not a sin to go to ortodox church liturgy. What happens when you talk to an oriental catholic church, refering him that you went to a moske, ortodox church, is that they give you a bless.

The thing would be, if you salute their doctrines (which they contein heresies), if you try to stablish an ecumenic dialogue with them (in this case, you aren't allowed to proceed, the dialogue is permanent at high authority levels}.
Besides all this, you can go to ortodox churchs ONLY if there is no catholic church available. The same will be for ortodox sheeps, they asist Catholic Church when there is no alternative.Their sacraments will be valid.
You will find a big difference on ortodox ritual, because they have a public confession by reading a list of sins, and you agree or don't agree if you have commited that sin. (internally you agree or not depending the case).
So, if the Trentine Council was on the Spirit to make everyone to understand the Liturgie, why would you go to an ortodox church, in where you don't understand what is happening?


That's all what i have to say to you.
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#52
(10-02-2021, 08:44 PM)AlNg777 Wrote:
(10-02-2021, 08:15 PM)Paul Wrote: Heretics can have valid sacraments, and the Orthodox and other groups who have maintained valid Holy Orders do, although it's a sin to attend them except in danger of death.
I doubt that Pope St. John Paul II committed a sin when he attended Orthodox Divine Liturgy on May 9, 1999 in Romania. I don't see how it can be a sin to attend an Orthodox Liturgy when you have Catholic Saints doing such. Please support your contention that it is a sin for a Roman Catholic to attend Orthodox Liturgy. What are your references for this? Also do you say it is a mortal sin or a venial sin?
Its not a sin for a Catholic to attend the liturgy of any eastern rite as long as it is celebrated by Catholics. I doubt anyone here contests this.

Its a sin to attend the liturgy of an eastern rite that is celebrated by non Catholics, as in those who reject Papal Primacy or any dogmas of the Church. It has nothing to do with the liturgy itself, its about celebration with heretics.

JPII celebrating with heretics is obviously a problem, but its also not surprising for someone who kissed a koran. Id also love to hear of a single occasion in almost two millennia before 1960s of a saint who worshipped alongside professed heretics.
Daily Rosary pray,
Scapular as She asked,
Little Office at my side,
Until the day I pass.

Through the highest heaven,
To the Almighty Three,
Father, Son, and Spirit,
One same glory be. Amen
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#53
(10-02-2021, 09:18 PM)Lavenderson Wrote: JPII celebrating with heretics is obviously a problem, but its also not surprising for someone who kissed a koran. Id also love to hear of a single occasion in almost two millennia before 1960s of a saint who worshipped alongside professed heretics.

Don't forget that he also convoked the utterly scandalous Assisi Gathering, called on St John the Baptist to bless the religion of the paedophile, and was 'anointed' with the heathen sacred tilaka. I'm always amazed at people who invoke John Paul as some sort of standard of Catholic orthodoxy!

If he had done ANY of those things as a Priest or Bishop before the Council, he would have been ordered to a life of prayer and penance in some remote monastery.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
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#54
(10-02-2021, 09:36 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(10-02-2021, 09:18 PM)Lavenderson Wrote: JPII celebrating with heretics is obviously a problem, but its also not surprising for someone who kissed a koran. Id also love to hear of a single occasion in almost two millennia before 1960s of a saint who worshipped alongside professed heretics.

Don't forget that he also convoked the utterly scandalous Assisi Gathering, called on St John the Baptist to bless the religion of the paedophile, and was 'anointed' with the heathen sacred tilaka. I'm always amazed at people who invoke John Paul as some sort of standard of Catholic orthodoxy!

If he had done ANY of those things as a Priest or Bishop before the Council, he would have been ordered to a life of prayer and penance in some remote monastery.

Life of prayer and monastery penance only if they repented! Mother Teresa is another case of such undeserving reverence of an almost iconic level.
Daily Rosary pray,
Scapular as She asked,
Little Office at my side,
Until the day I pass.

Through the highest heaven,
To the Almighty Three,
Father, Son, and Spirit,
One same glory be. Amen
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#55
(10-02-2021, 09:18 PM)Lavenderson Wrote:
(10-02-2021, 08:44 PM)AlNg777 Wrote:
(10-02-2021, 08:15 PM)Paul Wrote: Heretics can have valid sacraments, and the Orthodox and other groups who have maintained valid Holy Orders do, although it's a sin to attend them except in danger of death.
I doubt that Pope St. John Paul II committed a sin when he attended Orthodox Divine Liturgy on May 9, 1999 in Romania. I don't see how it can be a sin to attend an Orthodox Liturgy when you have Catholic Saints doing such. Please support your contention that it is a sin for a Roman Catholic to attend Orthodox Liturgy. What are your references for this? Also do you say it is a mortal sin or a venial sin?
Its not a sin for a Catholic to attend the liturgy of any eastern rite as long as it is celebrated by Catholics. I doubt anyone here contests this.

Its a sin to attend the liturgy of an eastern rite that is celebrated by non Catholics, as in those who reject Papal Primacy or any dogmas of the Church. It has nothing to do with the liturgy itself, its about celebration with heretics.

JPII celebrating with heretics is obviously a problem, but its also not surprising for someone who kissed a koran. Id also love to hear of a single occasion in almost two millennia before 1960s of a saint who worshipped alongside professed heretics.


I think you are your own Pope.
Mutual excomunion betwen Catholics and Ortodox churchs were removed since decades.
The conditions are the same for both: No one from one church can go to the other one, except in case of emergency (no church available nearby).
What you aren't allowed to do: is to talk to the ortodox priest about doctrines, trying to have an ecumenic dialogue.

Catholic oriental or eastern (as you call them, but they are oriental) rites are in comunion with Rome, you aren't asisting to other Church, just another rite (as the Ambrossian one, in Milan).

Just for everyone, be careful with the syrian ones, and be sure if they are really catholics, or they are ortodox, because ortodox ones call themself also catholics, but they aren't


About your comments of JP II, i thought the Donatists didn't exists since like 1500, but seems you are one of them. No occidental person can understand that kiss to the koran. But you might understand what happens in muslim countries if they get offended with the viral videos from Afganistan, Irak, etc.
Do you know that in Irak in the lastests years 1.000.000 christians were killed by muslims? Pope Francis couldn't have an agreement with big portions of the islam if it wasn't a first aproach from JP II with them. They are hard people to deal with.
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#56
Welcome to the forum Tomas. I hope you find the traditional Catholic content on here helpful
Daily Rosary pray,
Scapular as She asked,
Little Office at my side,
Until the day I pass.

Through the highest heaven,
To the Almighty Three,
Father, Son, and Spirit,
One same glory be. Amen
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#57
By traditional you mean donatists?
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#58
(10-02-2021, 10:23 PM)Tomas Wrote: Catholic oriental or eastern (as you call them, but they are oriental) ...
 
In religious usage in the English language, 'Oriental' has a standard meaning. It means the Oriental Orthodox who are miaphysite heretics, rejecting the Chalcedonian definition of Christ's two Natures. The Oriental Orthodox are not in communion with either the Eastern Orthodox or the Catholic Church.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
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#59
(10-02-2021, 11:04 PM)Tomas Wrote: By traditional you mean donatists?
Whoever has a problem with Catholics kissing the koran, take notes! Tomas please remind me of the Church's long history of koran-kissing by Catholic leaders as an appeal to muslims. Do you really think any pre-Vatican 2 Pope or saint would regard that action as acceptable from any Catholic?

There is no ecumenical dialogue outside the Church. Ecumenism is derived from a greek word meaning "within the house," which is why no Council prior to V2 had leaders of different faiths attending and chiming in (let alone assisting in designing a new style of worship).
Daily Rosary pray,
Scapular as She asked,
Little Office at my side,
Until the day I pass.

Through the highest heaven,
To the Almighty Three,
Father, Son, and Spirit,
One same glory be. Amen
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#60
(10-02-2021, 09:36 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: I'm always amazed at people who invoke John Paul as some sort of standard of Catholic orthodoxy!
I thought that Pope St. John Paul II was a canonized Catholic Saint. Aren't all Catholic Saints in heaven and blessed by Almighty God ? Is it not Catholic teaching that once a person is canonized as a saint, he is worthy of universal veneration and further he is held up as worthy of our emulation?
Further, did not Pope Benedict also participate in the Divine Liturgy according to the rite of Saint John Chrysostom in the Patriarchal Church of Saint George in the Phanar, Istanbul on Thursday, 30 November 2006? I don't see the support for a claim that this was a sin.
https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-...turgy.html
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